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An Idiot’s Guide to the Watts Family Finances

We ought to do our due diligence in the Watts case, and figure out the finances. How was responsible for what? What financial storms were barreling over the Colorado plains that summer for this picture-perfect family from North Carolina?

As an initial point, in the 2015 Bankruptcy Filing, under the heading DEED OF TRUST FOR PRINCIPAL RESIDENCE, a black rectangle censors out a space. Does the blacked out space cover one name or two?

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I know something about economics, but I don’t claim to be an expert on the subtleties behind income statements and balance sheets. Over the past few days I’ve approached three expert friends of mine – an accountant, a banker and a guy with a successful debt collection business – and asked them to prognosticate on the Watts family finances, including the 2015 Filing. I’m still waiting to hear back from all three of them. Other people’s money, it seems, is seldom as simple, straightforward or easy as it looks.

While we’re waiting for the experts to pronounce on those finances, let’s begin by stating the obvious in three areas:

1) What did the Watts themselves believe about their financial ability? 2) How were they living in 2018 compared to 2015 [during their first bankruptcy filing]? 3) What are the relative histories of Shan’ann and Chris Watts towards money and debt over time?

1) What did the Watts themselves believe about their financial ability?

Shan’ann uses the same language over and over again in all her promotional videos. A product is seriously “amazing” and “incredible”, we’re told, and her fellow promoters breathlessly repeat the same empty aphorisms. We never really find out why Thrive is such a gamechanging life changing product. As amazing as it is, it’s amazingly thin on facts, stats and real information, and incredibly fat on fancy packaging, branding and promotion.

There are endless character witnesses just like Shan’ann telling the world of Facebook – anyone dumb enough to listen – how amazing they feel, how good they look, what cars they’re driving, what holidays they took and of course what to do to join the Thrivin’ to make it all a better world for everyone.

The product [like the money in this game] is just a byproduct to living the Thrivin’ fairy tale. Nobody really cares about the product on their way to financial wellness. Well, only in a fairy tale business is the product itself a fiction and a fairy tale, and only real world flakes invest in fictitious finance.

During the above call Shan’ann refers to someone on her team earning a $200 000 bonus, someone else a $1 million bonus. These massive sums are presumably amounts extra over commissions, incomes and salaries. If so, it seems being part of the Thrivin’ thing means being awash with cash, doesn’t it?

So why wasn’t Shan’ann cash flush two years into her swim in the MLM Kool-Aid? Or was her marriage in trouble not because of financial strain, not because of the enormous debt they still carried three years later, but other factors?

Let’s consider for the moment that their finances were going down the drain. Being involved in MLM tends not to be a success story for 99% of people who do get involved, so the idea isn’t far-fetched.

The massive cash payouts Shan’ann was referring to in the clip above sounds and feels almost like a lottery, doesn’t it. Is it performance based or random?

Where this phantom money is supposed to come from is beyond me, but to MLM it doesn’t manner. The pyramid will fart it out. Who cares about the marginal economics of patches and powders, or how many of these bandaids must be actually purchased and recycled by those drinking the Kool-Aid to produce an excess – who cares about that when what matters is getting the bonus!

The extent of Shan’ann’s “investment” if that’s the word, in MLM provides some idea about just how poor her grasp was of business, economics, income or simply making ends meet.

If Shan’ann was drowning in Kool-Aid, Chris Watts was also taking glugs and gulps at the font of the barrel. If he wasn’t drunk on the Kool-Aid, he was certainly susceptible to its hypnotic pull.

The Watts family were in a real sense the intellectual inheritors of the housing bubble. In other words, they believed wealth could be conjured [like bubbles] out of thin air. Straw woven into gold with a few careful chosen words/incantations on social media.

The problem with bubbles is the same problem with fairy tales – when they pop, you find yourself in the real world, but this time the wolf barking at the door is real.

2) How were they living in 2018 compared to 2015?

In the video clip above Shan’ann appears to say [at about the 5 minute mark] that “they” have donated $500 000 to breast cancer awareness over the past two years, and are “shooting for” $500 000 “in this year alone”. What she means is the entire company has donated money. In 2015 Le-Vel donated $250 000 to the National Breast Cancer Foundation via the proceeds of it’s “Limited edition breast cancer DFT” [whatever that is].

Le-Vel Brands Donation

I haven’t been able to find any further evidence of additional donations to Breast Cancer Awareness besides this. If there are, drop me a line in the comments below.

The point is, the donation isn’t really anything else besides the company using it’s own promoters to raise money for charity through their own sales to one another “for a good cause”.

If the Watts family were Thrivin’ in 2017 and 2018, had they been able to address their debt burden, or had it gotten infinitely worse?

We don’t need an intimate knowledge of their finances to know that three years after filing for bankruptcy, it may not have been the best idea to have a third child. The original bankruptcy filing noted as much, stating in 2015 that the financial conditions of the family were likely to worsen after 2015 as Shan’ann was pregnant with her second child.

Fullscreen capture 20180910 084301

It should also be noted that Chris was driving a fairly beat up old truck in 2018. Hadn’t he qualified for a luxury auto bonus somewhere down the line? So why was he stuck in 2018 driving a company car, a fleet vehicle?

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Fullscreen capture 20181010 232233Fullscreen capture 20181010 232242

3) What are the relative histories of Shan’ann and Chris Watts towards money and debt over time?

This is the critical question. In a prior post we saw the backstories of Shan’ann and Chris Watts, and the sort of home they grew up in and lived in over the years. Shan’ann’s from a humble background. Her mother is a hairdresser, her father and brother are carpenters. Chris Watts is a mechanic from humble roots too. So how was money conjured into a $400 000 mansion on spiffy Saratoga Trail?

Now, remember that blacked out rectangle we looked at a moment ago? According to research done by one commenter on this site [thanks Cheryl]:

In terms of deed information the header for 2825 Saratoga reads:

“Two deed records were found on this property.” Underneath that header in this order is the following information:

Ownership Change: June 4, 2013
From: Christoper L. Watts to Christopher L. Watts and Shanann Watts (there is no loan information here, indicating the property was not refinanced; the June 4 activity indicates the addition of Shanann’s name to the deed only.)

Ownership Change: May 1, 2013
From KDB Homes, Inc. to Christopher L. Watts

Lender: DHI Mortgage
Loan Amount: $392,709
Lender Type: Mortgage Company
Loan Type: Federal Housing Authority (FHA)
Line of Credit: 0 Credit Line

Given what we know about the North Carolina house she owned and her selling it with all the furnishings, I would have to think she was in significant financial trouble (probably behind on mortgage payments) and couldn’t qualify for a loan…in 2013, when lending had really tightened due to the housing debacle. Assuming Chris’s credit was good, they probably had a better chance of obtaining a loan under his name only. Perhaps the idea was to jointly refinance the home later on, so that Shanann would be on both the deed and the loan. Since their finances went downhill after 2013, I imagine this was not a possibility. They certainly couldn’t take advantage of the rock-bottom interest rates that were available around the time they filed bankruptcy.

…What’s interesting about this is I think you can be on the deed without having to be on the loan, which means Chris may have been solely responsible for the loan while Shan’ann enjoyed half ownership of the house without the financial responsibility.

As their finances unraveled resulting in the 2015 bankruptcy coupled with what seems like continuing financial problems after that, the birth of two children, Shan’ann’s quitting her job to stay at home with the kids, unreliable income from Thrive, and then a third child on the way, I can only imagine the level of rancor this created in the Watts household, especially with Chris. It would also support Chris’s possibly having a sense of entitlement (literally and figuratively) to the home, thereby underscoring Chris’s wanting sole possession of 2825 Saratoga as a primary motivation for the murders. On the other hand, if Chris had no way to retain the home, his murdering Shan’ann could have been revenge for losing the home and compromising Chris’s credit–Chris had mentioned to a neighbor they were considering selling the home. Anyway, something to think about..

There’s also a third possibility. By getting rid of the straws that were breaking the camel’s back, Chris Watts may have figured he could cut his losses and replace his family [especially his wife] with a more viable family.  Perhaps he could move in a girlfriend who had a half-decent paying job like his, and together they could get real about keeping the dream house and at least have a chance in paying it off.

In the post unequally yoked I touched on this aspect. The money train, debt and the idea of being yoked isn’t as sexy, apparently, as reading about a mistress. Like Shan’ann, the mistress may have been a means to an end, the end being keeping the fairy tale going at all costs. For Chris Watts the fairy tale was the house, not what was in it.



  1. piktor

    Nick writes:
    “Limited edition breast cancer DFT” [whatever that is].”

    – DTF is the patch, step 3 of the daily “3-step” Magic Powder Co. magical routine.
    Step 1) 1-2 pills, on an empty stomach, first thing in the morning
    Step 2) swallow one glass of magic powder drink, (30 minutes after taking the pill/s)
    Step 3) DFT patch. Now all is good and you’re set for the daily 1,2,3 magic experience.

    – “Limited edition” would be just that, a patch edition that’s magic plus wonderful. (actually it’s same old patch that has “limited edition” printed on it).

    People at Magic Powder Co. talk of “$200,000”, “$500,000”, “$1,000,000”. But it’s magic money talk. It’s all-in magic. It means what Magic Powder Co. says it means. For a small membership fee and a not so small continuous bleeding of your money, all will be revealed.

    Pronto! Do register your membership at Magic Powder Co.!!! ASP! Do luxuriate in tens!, hundreds!, millions! of magic money figures! (that mean exactly nothing)! (but mean a lot to marketing gurus at Magic Powder Co.)! (breast cancer = mo’ sales!)!

  2. Marie

    Look at what we “have” not who we are. -Colorado

    The Watts family was definitely living beyond their means. That much is clear. But, was Chris the one who wanted to maintain the “fairy tale”? That is not so clear. There are thousands of people in Colorado who live this “romanticized” lifestyle. They burn the candle at both ends trying to make ends meet, but they drive the newest vehicle, talk on the newest iPhones, and consider themselves a picture of success. “Living the dream!”

    They live in a sea of track homes, without community.
    They are “thriving”, but cash poor.

    Perhaps this was the lifestyle he did NOT want anymore.

    • nickvdl

      What did he want that was worth murdering for, in your opinion?

      • Marie

        To hide his shame, shame of letting his family down (financially), shame of her knowing he was unfaithful (or perhaps bisexual), shame of not living up to something he had set in his mind. Built up resentment, built up angst and frustration. Feeling that he’s never good enough. Feeling trapped. Any or all of those things, probably highlighted by the rose colored glasses he was wearing in an affair.

      • Rc

        This article is a waste of time! I mean what was the net worth of the watts and what did their income statement indicate. 2 pieces of paper that would reveal their finances in a nutshell! This article says based to nothing but they had a mortgage of 392 on a home they paid 400000 for!

        • crimerocket_pmfrt4

          Except neither of those are available.

          • Rc

            So in 2000 pages of discovery this data is not avail? Income expenses assets and debt?

          • crimerocket_pmfrt4

            Correct, it’s not available. It’s a little late to be finding this out now, isn’t it?

    • Jenetex

      What’s also interesting is that Chris kept talking that he wasn’t allowed to handle finances because of a mistake of selling an ATV that he was upside down on. He also mentioned that sha’naan was good with money but in a police interview he spoke that she didn’t pay the HOA for a year and that she told him she was mailing the check to the wrong address.

  3. piktor

    Posted at Nick’s twitter page:

    • nickvdl

      so 250 k per year?

      • piktor

        No straight answers down at Magic Powder Co. There are 2 Powder Co. branches that are listed in the “platinum” sponsor list. A “platinum” sponsor is a $100,000 sponsor.

        One Powder Co. branch is called “le – vel . com”, the other “thrive causemetics”

    • terry

      I forgot where I saw it…..Maybe you can help? She leases a car and Level paid 300.00 and she paid 500.00

      • Nick

        You posted the same question at least three times on three different posts. If you do this again you’ll be permanently banned.

        • Casey

          You’re hilarious

  4. Cheryl

    Nick, I think you make an excellent point at the very end of your blog when you say regarding the Saratoga home “that for Chris the fairy tale was the house not what was in it.” When I viewed the photos of the North Carolina home with its lovely exterior and furnishings (nicer than Saratoga), I thought this must have been quite a draw for Chris, possibly even moreso than Shanann’s vulnerability—Shanann herself. The difference with the North Carolina home was Chris wasn’t on the hook for the mortgage, and the relationship with Shan’ann was fresh. As a result, Chris may have conflated the fairy tale home with a fantasy of Shan’ann as a successful, attractive, independent woman who had fallen on hard times due to medical issues (was this a ruse for losing the house? She had two children and was pregnant with a third against all odds according to her stated medical diagnosis). However, with the recreation of the North Carolina house in Colorado, reality began to take its toll due to mounting debt, children to support, and inadequate means to maintain the fairy tale. All of this, with the exception of the children, was a recapitulation of the North Carolina “dark period.” Chris must have recognized that history was repeating itself, except this time he was financially involved and any fantasies he had about Shan’ann had long since evaporated, leaving only the house.

    • Cheryl

      Other thoughts on my above comments: in terms of the North Carolina house being a draw for. Chris, I have no doubt that Shanann posted photos of it on her Facebook site, where Chris initially sent her a friend request and where she sometime later accepted his invitation. That it took some time for her to accept Chris (Shan’ann says she steadfastly ignored him), makes me wonder if she waited to express some interest in him until it was expedient to do so, i.e., financial support to maintain the North Carolina home mortgage. While Shanann often presented a sweet aspect, my gut tells me she was fundamentally manipulative.

      • nickvdl

        I also think she was manipulative, and coercive. You see that every now and then with her children too.

        • Juanita Ann Richards

          Yet Watts admitted in his prison interviews that Shannan was too trusting…..

    • nickvdl

      I think a lot of people out there look at the house and go, pah, that’s not it. But you have to put together the hard scrabble background and the house. You can’t see it through your eyes, or my eyes, it has to be seen through his – and hers. Then everything changes.

      • Cheryl

        Agreed. Hard-scrabble background for both of them, and the Yellow Brick Road trek to the technicolor Emerald Palace is haunted by lions, tigers, and bears, oh, my! When you finally arrive at the fantasy palace, you realize it’s a facade manipulated by an addled old man claiming wizard powers. The trip back home is conjured by the mere clicking of heals, the ruby slippers of dreams—a fantasy that transports you right back to the bleak black-and-white reality from whence you came.

  5. nickvdl

    @Marie Humiliation [shame] can and does play a huge role in sadism [murder]. But in general terms, is there any shame [for the average human being] in losing one’s home?

    When I worked in a newsroom and lost my job, almost immediately I had to find a new place to live to match a lower income. It was definitely a lower standard of living. That was very hard to accept. It is for most people. The acceptance didn’t come overnight either.

  6. Deb

    The fantasy life of get rich quick had consumed her, while Chris tried to support her dreams and bring money into the house. He probably felt like it was a house of cards and he was juggling too many balls in the air. His escape was the affair and when SW found out she was going to ruin him and financially finish him off. He just couldn’t cope and killed them all. Unfortunately he was just as guilty in the fantasy life as she was.

  7. Shey

    Chris Watts is a covert malignant narcissist and Shanann and her children were his victims.

  8. joalake

    I have not read anywhere any concern from either of them in regard to their financial situation. Maybe bankruptcy was a okay with them as long as the neighborhood did not know. I think SW was the spender and she had a desire to appear very successful and thriving. All the printed tee shirts, apple watches and other electronics etc. She bragged about building a house at age 25 but I think she had not covered all the cost. A house of cards.
    No depth to the relationship. I do not think either had much of an education. CW never finishes a sentence in his interrogation videos and his use of the word” like’ is annoying.
    Their life was a mess.

    • Viki

      Her health issues led to heavy debt… due to medical expenses … claiming bankruptcy was a smart move.

  9. Joe

    The comments on here and the construction of a narrative which on the face of it shifts the blame to shanann – ask the question – would my arguments stand up to scrutiny? The answer is no – nothing on here explains murdering your own children.

    • nickvdl

      the construction of a narrative which on the face of it shifts the blame to shanann >>>”on the face of it shifts blame to Shan’ann”. Dude, number one, get the spelling of the victim’s name right. Two, spend a little more time reading and listening. All aspects of the case are interrogated. One blog post focusing on a particular area isn’t victim blaming. As to “explaining the murder” – there are many insights you seem unaware of, complaints Watts made about his wife, children and finances to others in private. If you’re unfamiliar with them, that doesn’t mean he didn’t have a motive, it just means you haven’t been paying attention.

      • Viki

        Chris (I believe) had multiple motives. If you listen to his speech he made back in 2012 on “Relationships” it will give you a peek into his thought process … it speaks volumes.
        He was busting out of his cocoon … breaking free … tired of walking on egg shells around Shanaan… a desire for a mate he could “be himself” around … no child support for 3 kids… collect close to 90K in life insurance … new relationship he feels is a much better fit… totally blind crazy over his new love…. his only concern was his own happiness.

      • Mustang Sally

        Technically, Joe did spell her name correctly. It’s a literal omission not to include the apostrophe. Jus’ sayin’! 😜

        • nickvdl

          No, it’s the opposite. Technically the name isn’t spelled that way. We’re into the 5th month after the crime and you still don’t know how to spell the victim’s name? And you want to argue with someone who has written 4 books on the case? Really?

    • msjulez

      Joe I have to agree with you. I’ve read several of these blogs and it’s almost always has that shift of blame towards her being the one who caused his meltdown or whatever you want to call it. Get a divorce and pick up the pieces you are left with and move on with the life you have. Killing the whole family shouldn’t ever be a thought. He is deep rooted with that type of thought and behavior no matter if SW was spending/living beyond her means. I’m sure like all the replies back from the blogger on here, I’ll catch a smartass tone of fire for my reply😒

      • nickvdl

        You probably won’t like this response, but Shan’ann was the one who had a meltdown in North Carolina. Are you aware of it, and of the implications and consequences surrounding it, or is it entirely irrelevant [because she’s the victim]?

        Maybe you could call a premeditated triple murder a meltdown, but I wouldn’t.

        The very nature of a premeditated crime is that it is cool, calm and collected, just as Watts was known to be.

        The knee-jerk response [which is just a recycling of the DA’s remark] that Watts ought to have simply “gotten a divorce” fails to take into account the various ways Watts felt “locked-in”. I’m sure that also means nothing to you, and you probably don’t care whether he thought he didn’t have a choice, or why he thought he didn’t. But that’s the difference between the smart asses and those who are curious what Watts’ genuine motives and circumstances were.

        You can project your own superior morality onto this case, and see it all as simple, stupid and straightforward, and you can accuse people like me of doing nothing but victim blaming [also a massive oversimplification and a gross distortion], or you can take yourself the fuck out of the equation, and try to figure out what HE was thinking.

        I think until you can do that, one of us is trying to be a smart ass, and the other is doing what all good true crime scientists do – investigate, search, question, interrogate, find out.

        Which one are you?

        • Toscha Klinksiek

          I absolute love your mind and how well you verbalize things. Your def above idiots who want to project their morality bs here. True crime has 0 place for narrow minded , un objective idiots! Next … ty Nick , your work is incredible.

      • msjulez

        I dont mind your response just like you didn’t like mine but it’s a different opinion which I won’t take yours if you allow me to make mine. I do not have myself in the equation of her life but as you, a outsider looking in with the facts and shit was going on with her and himself. No matter what she spent, or how she “was” it isnt in anyway have anything to do with him committing murder. He has that disposition regardless who pushes him around or makes him feel inferior as a man. Yes I know that shanann had a meltdown and had a major blow out with CWs parents/sister. Her child/children, her girls were not being treated right and she was concerned for their safety.
        Could she have handled it differently, sure but she spoke her opinion. Which if CW didn’t like he could have left, divorced her like more then a billion people do each year.
        I can respect the fact your life opinion just like I can respect Joe’s and say I have to agree, for some reason I feel you do not feel the same for others opinions.

  10. Sarah

    Excellent, excellent blog.

    Just before he was administered the polygraph test, he admitted that he was behind on the mortgage and that Shan’ann – only a few months before – had taken out $10,000.00 from his 401k to “catch up” on the delinquent mortgage payments. Which means that they had fallen behind earlier in the year and borrowed from his 401k to pay the mortgage and, then, immediately fallen behind again.

    Interestingly, the detective teases out of Chris that his payment was due the day before – presumably (I think) the day of the murders. Also, due that day was daycare or “school” tuition. So, the day of the murders he was on the hook to pay $3500.00. This highlights the timing of the murders and illuminates the reasons why he almost immediately calls the school and a realtor after dumping their bodies.

    The dissonance in their perspectives on their financial situation was deadly apparent the night of the murders; Shan’ann, after returning from a fruitless “business trip” where she and her friends had stayed an extra day just to (as her friend states) “explore Arizona”, she tries to purchase some haircare products at 2:00 am but her credit card is declined.

    It’s Chris, then, that was actually more accurate about their financial burden and arrives at its most logical conclusion: they can’t live their life this way anymore. With the bills due tomorrow and no money to pay them “not living that way” had to be effective immediately.

    But, entitlement is not the same thing as narcissism. Moving forward on something you know is wrong isn’t sociopathic or psychopathic. Deducing their murders to Chris’ dysfunctional pathology (even uncontrollable pathology) would deny that Chris had a choice – an incredible amount of choices. I don’t believe there is a trigger.

    Chris was presented with two options: divorce or annihilation; he chose the one most economically expedient which oddly (or not oddly at all) echoed Shan’ann’s commodification of their existence that included their children, their happiness, their love story, her health, his body, her body, their children’s allergies, her car, her ability to provide, etc. Shan’ann states over and over again through her MLM-based livestreams that Thrive was responsible for their life. She was selling her life (more literally, her body) as an adverstisement for a product. Therefore, Chris, the kids, the house, their bodies were commodified and used for Shan’ann to get what she wanted: money. Unfortunately for her, Chris followed suit and crunched some numbers of his own: her body (especially considering her surgery and health challenges) and the kids’ bodies (considering their health challenges) cost him a tremendous amount of money and without their bodies he would have more of what he wanted: money. In other words, Shan’ann sells their healthy bodies for more money for her, and Chris responds in-kind (though, inversely) and kills their bodies for more money for him. The body was a commodity to both of them. What Shan’ann tried to get with them alive, Chris tried to get with them dead. The yin and yang. As she slept in the big master bedroom and had an active shoe collection in her own shoe closet, Chris was relegated to an old spare bed in the basement with the inactive storage. She talked, he was quiet. She spent her days inside on her phone, he was out in the sun working with his hands. Her health was bad, his health was only getting better. She was getting fatter, he was getting thinner. She had big long nails, he

    The balance of their relationship even though it led them to the annihilation of their family and themselves makes them incredibly well-yoked. Twin dysfunctional souls. The yin to her yang. Chris picked up what Shan’ann put down, flipped it and reversed it.

    ***There is some theory out there (mostly critical) that says when a thing and its opposite exist at the same time, then they cancel each other out; “nothing comes from nothing” or “ex nihilo nihil fit”. But, something still does exist from Chris and Shan’ann and that’s Chris, himself. That murderous night he edged out Shan’ann in a final decisive tango which makes her a victim in the truest sense. Though, well-yoked in their entitlement, their dysfunction and their moral bankruptcy what he had that she didn’t (which maybe he didn’t even know) was his ability to physically kill all of them without a messy crime scene, without blood, without rage, without fighting. The quietness and cleanliness of being being smothered/strangled is the single most revealing aspect of Chris Watts – his own body was a weapon, their bodies were a commodity. His hands, just like in the oil field, used to get the money he needed.

    • Ralph Oscar

      I perpetually love this post, Sarah. I just wish you’d finish the thought that applied to the Chris counterpart after Shan’Ann’s big long fake nails 🙂

      • Mark

        I assumed it was just an etcetera; her nails get long, because her job doesn’t involve very much hands-on anything that would cause them to wear down/break, unlike Chris’s job.. it’s a metaphor for how much each job could reasonably contribute to maintaining the lifestyle

  11. DCFan1911

    The mortgage on that house – which according to discovery documents was ~$2,700 per month – would have equaled nearly all of Chris Watts’s monthly after-tax income. The mortgage plus the $500 per week daycare would have EXCEEDED that amount. Their financial situation was rapidly becoming untenable and had Chris Watts been a normal human being, the family would have faced a financial catastrophe very soon. It’s an open question what would have happened to them had Watts been a normal person and lived with the consequences of his passiveness rather than murdered his entire family to escape it.

    • Ralph Oscar

      Considering they’d filed bankruptcy in the summer of 2015, the Watts finances were *already* untenable and intolerable. I simply can’t understand how they could let things get *this* bad *this* soon after a bankruptcy already.

  12. richard

    Nickvdl, I found a document that has some details of her Divorce and some financial details including the bankruptcy that may be of help

    I also found that Shanann also had another Facebook account when under the name of King but only for 2009 to 2010
    I still cannot find any documents of what Shannon got financially from the divorce.

    • Ralph Oscar

      Aha!! “SHANNON”!! LOL!!

    • Ralph Oscar

      That’s an excellent find, richard. Thank you.

  13. richard

    I am not sure how bankruptcy works in america but in less than a year the Bankruptcy was discharged, so who bailed them out ? Wasn’t Shanann’s parents living with them then (for around 15 months) ?
    also CW wasn’t just on one burn patch but two. people miss this. Even LeVel state only use one patch.
    I bet CW had been caffeine’d up to the max for a while with hardly any sleep. This would have just added to his instability. Someone should be questioning his mental ability whilst ‘patched up to the max’

    • Ralph Oscar

      In the US, someone “files for bankruptcy” when their debts exceed their assets to such an extent that they can’t ever get caught up. When “the bankruptcy is discharged”, that means the court ruled that they could have their bankruptcy, which means that certain of their debts were “discharged”, or erased. This is typically credit card bills. A person can choose to have some of their debts included in the bankruptcy and others not included – I knew someone who had held a credit card back from her bankruptcy (and was then very upset when that credit card company found out about her bankruptcy and canceled her card anyway). In a bankruptcy, the filer’s home and vehicle (I think – might need to look that up) are protected – creditors cannot seize someone’s home and sell it to settle their debts. But while the house cannot be seized, the payments must continue to be made – the mortgage loan on the house is not erased. Changes to the laws in recent years have removed student loan debt from the list of debts that can be discharged (so you now find retirees still paying off their student loans) and I believe in some cases (maybe all) medical debt cannot be discharged either. It’s all converging to make homelessness more likely, obviously. Clearly, SHANNON and CW had *terrible* money management practices and could have benefited mightily (I’d hope) from some court-ordered money management counseling.

    • Pennie P

      Speculation. Please. Don’t guess he was “hyped up”
      Remember, she was 15 weeks pregnant and wearing those vile, non-FDA approved and not Endorsed by the Better Business Bureau

  14. richard

    ok Ralph Oscar. thank you.this makes sense.
    Here in the UK, it’s very hard to get debt written off. only in major circumstance changes does debt get written off. like a major injury that prevents a person working will get debt written off

  15. Jill

    Tragically, Shannan has both medical bill debt and I believe, some student loan debt. The house was too expensive for them. A two bedroom apartment would have been better if a rental was available. Also, her parents spent 15 months living with the couple and caring for their daughter through a difficult 2nd pregnancy. How in the world could she put everyone through this again? And the expense of a third child? And staying home without a paying job? And get involved in MLM scheme that costs most people 10s of thousands to join? She didn’t deserve what happened to her, but is it surprising that something would happen to her ?

  16. Jenna

    Wow.. I thought I was the only one who thought about thrive being a Culprit in their finances. Also… wondering if any of the thrive supplements have an active ingredient in it that can cause an individual to go into a state of psychosis? Some supplements can have unforeseen consequences that can play a huge toll on mental health (GABA,?) idk I want to make some time to do some more research … I DO NOT trust MLM companies. They’re the fucking scum of the earth

    • JPL

      I did a MLM and it was great actually. They aren’t pyramid schemes but you have to put a ton of work into them and if you don’t recruit you won’t make the money they say you will. And if there isn’t a population to buy your stuff, forget it. I wouldn’t buy Trive. No way I’d slap that on my body, That being said I think both she and Chris spent wildly. Did you pick up on an interview that she had not paid the HOA for a yr and said it went to the wrong address? But the detective asked about the checks not being cashed for a year and how they didn’t notice that and Chris had no answer. They over spent on a house they couldn’t afford…,I have come to believe that his mom is a Narc and he is too. I think he “married his mother” and finally snapped (he always said he never tried to be emotional) and killed “her.” The interviews he did in state prison are really interesting too. Check them out if you haven’t. Fascinating case. Have a great day!

      • Ralph Oscar

        So you “did” an MLM (past tense) and “it was great actually”. If it was so “great actually”, why did you quit?

        Shan’Ann did SEVEN MLMs, you know. She also apparently thought they were “great actually”.

        • Jpl

          Thanks Oscar but I don’t have a keyboard, just a tablet. I really don’t appreciate your hostility. Though your response is uncalled for I will say that I agree that the financial pressure was intense for them and I think a lot of people who do MLM sales have the mindset you wrote about. was only sharing as this is a comment board. If you have further info on the connection of her biz to her death, it would be interesting to read. I stopped because I have a full time job and only wanted to do it for a year to see what sales was like. It was a lot of work so I didn’t have much time to myself. I only wanted to sell and not build “teams” like MLMs do.

          • nickvdl



          • Jpl

            Thanks Nick, i totally understand the anger of this type of sale. It’s nuts, I never the internet wasn’t around when I did it. I hate that the discussion is moving in this direction instead of focusing on the case.

          • richard

            Jpl, how did you get out of the MLM you was involved in ? where there penalties to pay and did you get hounded after leaving ?
            if so it sounds more like a religious cult. lol

          • Ralph Oscar

            Shan’Ann’s MLM addiction was a HUGE contributing factor in this case.

      • Ralph Oscar

        “They aren’t pyramid schemes”

        The Federal Trade Commission disagrees with you. I think I trust their judgment more.

        “MLM as a business model is the epitome of an ‘unfair or deceptive acts or practice’ that the FTC is pledged to protect against. It is even worse than classic, noproduct pyramid schemes (for which the loss rate is only about 90%) and ‘pay to play’ chain letters. For promoters to present MLM as a “business opportunity” or “income opportunity” is a misrepresentation. ”

        So please don’t misrepresent here. The Thrive MLM contributed mightily to this tragedy, to a degree that no one will completely understand because the case didn’t go to trial, and Shan’Ann’s delusion that it was “great actually” likely accelerated their family’s financial train going straight into that wall. They were going to lose their *house* because she was pretending to “have her own business” instead of working a job for a paycheck while paying for the most expensive preschool in town. The MLM indoctrinated Shan’Ann to make bad decision after bad decision after bad decision and no amount of wishful thinking or careful smiling and posing for the camera was going to change that.

        If she *hadn’t* gotten caught up on one shitty MLM after another, she wouldn’t have had that destructive mindset of “fake it ’til you make it”, putting on the façade of living a lifestyle that was way out of reach of their actual finances, the whole “get rich quick” mindset, she and her husband could have worked *together* to actually pay their bills instead of Shan’Ann playacting on her dumb little videos and thinking that was going to cause money to start rolling in. Shan’Ann needed mental help, not a “great actually” MLM predator.

        So yeah. Take your “MLM…was great actually” and stick it right up your…keyboard.

      • marmalady71

        Reminds me of the *Roseanne* episode where Roseanne has it all figured out how to rob Peter to pay Paul with mailing *pmts* to wrong addresses, not signing the checks, sending water bill to electric company and so on. I guess Shanann had the “I mailed it in so it was paid” Not responsible for mail mistakes mentality

        Also… what about their taxes? Would she & CW have a 1099 or w2 for Le-Vel? That would be another expense… and is there any info on if she was current?

  17. shadowolf

    In the following video, YouTube user 411 NOW claims that based upon his sources (“I’m going to give you the actual sources, so you can check this stuff out.”) and estimates, Shanann and CW were each grossing $60,000 per year. He then estimates their combined net income, after taxes and deductions at $103,000 per year.

    • nickvdl

      So it sounds like the case has been made here for why the Watts family could afford their house and why they weren’t in any financial difficulty. So why all the disclosure about talking to a realtor and wanting to move immediately around the time of the murders?
      Why do you think Detective Baumhover, the DA, Chris Watts, Shan’ann Watts, Nickole Atkinson and Nichol Kessinger all said the Watts couple were in financial difficulty?
      And if financial difficulty, the previous brankruptcy and being three months behind on their mortgage is irrelevant, why didn’t Chris Watts get a divorce if he could afford it? I’m interested to hear your answer.

  18. shadowolf

    So 411 NOW’s calculations suggest that they had doubled their combined annual income from $4,909.03 at the time of their 2015 bankruptcy filing to a rate of $10,000 per year by 2018.

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