True Crime Analysis, Breakthroughs, Insights & Discussions Hosted by Bestselling Author Nick van der Leek

Did Chris Watts not mind his wife Shan’ann humiliating him on Facebook?

In TWO FACE I discuss the seemingly esoteric subject of man as a symbolic animal, and as a symbolic animal, how we are nourished [validated] with symbols that mean things to us. Flags, colors, brands, songs – the human experience is awash with things that enhance our experience of the world. But just as an animal who is nourished on symbols can find them infinitely and exquisitely validating, he can also be infinitely and excruciatingly invalidated.

Facebook is a great example of a simple symbolic schema that, if we allow it, determines our worth. We measure ourselves [our social power] and one another [their social power] by the number of friends, likes and and interactions we get on social media, and we especially value gestures of reinforcement from people that are important, or important to us. There three dynamics at play on social media. My social power, yours, and then the dynamic between mine and yours. In other words, who am I vis-a-vis everyone else, and who are you vis-a-vis me, and everyone else.

The magic of Thrive is how it’s designed to be a system where a nobody can be thrown a social media life-buoy and turned into somebody by legions of other MLM nobodies all hellbent on same need for social self-enrichment [and the piles of gold coins anticipated to go along with that]. You sing my praises and I’ll sing yours. You follow me and I’ll follow you. I make you rich, give you free stuff, and you do the same for me. It’s brilliant, because everyone wins. Right?

We’ve seen Shan’ann singing her husband’s praises as her Rock, the love of her life, the one for her, the one who stood by her, someone who she considered “amazing” as a man, a husband and a father. Validating, right?

Now imagine what this feels like.

To understand what’s really going on here, Shan’ann actually took out her camera and snapped a picture demonstrating her husband’s idiocy after giving him instructions. What this reveals isn’t just someone who’s used to barking out a lot of orders, but someone who expresses anger and contempt when her servant falls short.

It’s unlikely the picture in the above post is from the two Christmasses past. But the fact that Shan’ann would go to the effort to demo how dumb her partner was in this instance to better and more fully illustrate her point and share it on social media [note the face palms] says something about a tendency to “borrow strength” from her Facebook flock when her husband fell out of favor.

It wasn’t enough to chastise him in private, he needed to punished, to be flogged in public.

In another post she uses seven face palms to make her point, all symbolic emoticons that, if Chris Watts saw them, would tend to invalidate all the flattering stuff Shan’ann had said about him previously.

Now imagine this. Imagine when you’re being validated it’s not because of something real that you did, or because of some genuine encouragement, but rather it’s part of a spiel to sell patches. Who he is is simply and conveniently expropriated for economies of scope to tip the social media scales in her favor. But then, at other times, when he’s being invalidated, well, that’s real. That’s based on real life. Nothing is being sold there except the abounding truth that he’s an idiot.

In either case, Shan’ann is turning to Facebook to be her megaphone about her feelings.

It’s a betrayal.

Each and every one of those face palms is deeply invalidating, it’s the complete opposite of the feel-good factor of social media mentioned earlier.

By anchoring praise in Thrive-themed promotion on the one hand and anchoring criticism to reality in the other, Shan’ann’s exposing herself as a capricious charlatan, at least in terms of her marriage. He sees all too clearly her contempt for him; he’s become only good enough as a prop in her business, and a fake one at that [and they both know it].

If Shan’ann could do this on a public platform, what did she say and do when she was really angry with her husband?

Without knowing anything about the Watts case other than the fact that their were three victims [and the unborn Niko], it’s abundantly clear there was an excess of sadism in this particular crime.  To be clear, all crimes are sadistic. Sadism is the intentional effort to benefit at another’s expense. I kill you, you’re dead, I live at your expense and hopefully I flourish at your expense. The more murders the more sadism.

The Watts Family murders is one of the most sadistic family murders I’ve come across, though it’s no match for the sadism of the Van Breda axe murders, where a 20-year-old hacked to death both parents, his older brother and his younger sister [who ultimately survived].

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#VanBreda #bylmoorde

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The Watts case feels gentler than axe murders, but consider the level of sadism to carry out one, then another, then a third strangling?  There’s also something particularly reprehensible about killing one’s own children, as well as this idea of quiet man quietly killing three innocent, helpless females in his care and custody.

If strangling is less sadistic than murder by axe, the carefully crafted disposal of the remains in oil drums and dirt feels coolly calculated, cruel and heartless. As if people he once knew as family, as a wife, as his own flesh and blood children, had suddenly been alchemised into garbage, and once they were garbage they could all be treated as such. And not a single tear shed in regret or remembrance.

Wherever there is sadism, there is anality. They go hand in hand. And wherever there is anality, there is humiliation. Without knowing anything about the Watts case it was immediately obvious that there was an extreme amount of humiliation somehow at play in the family dynamics.

We’re starting to see evidence of that now. This is just the tip of the iceberg, and the humiliation, mark my words, isn’t limited just to what the murderer felt…


  1. Pauline

    I can see that. He was bossed around, mercilessly. Even her brother Frankie comes to his defense. Perhaps he had heard it before, with Leonard T. King. Bitching on facebook is so public, it’s shameful. Posting your bitches. But it’s not like none of us have done it, is it? To a friend, perhaps, about another friend – but Chris would have been able to read these, wouldn’t he have? And at some point I think he was wracking up the points in his negative column.

    • piktor

      So what. Divorce the oppressor wife. Happens all the time in History.

      Instead comes up with a patent no-game Watts Final Solution.

      Can’t call it ‘a plan’.

    • Carmen

      I have commented on this case before having lived through something similar.
      I will try and explain the way I felt and still feel. When I first met my now ex husband he was very charming and everyone thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, however after we got engaged I wondered why he didn’t want sex. I tried but he didn’t want to. I found this strange . So anyway one night I tried again but this time something in him changed and he raped me violently. Now you are all thinking why did I marry him?
      1. He apologised to me and told me that he would never do it again. But Did I believe him?
      2. The invitations were out and I was embarrassed to tell anyone and who would believe me? After all he was the perfect man!
      3. I had a son to a previous relationship and he loved him like his own child.
      His parents hated me and told him if he married me that they would not attend the wedding. He said don’t come I don’t care I love her and her son.
      The wedding.
      The parents came.
      Three fights at the wedding one was racial as I am Australian he is Italian.
      He changed again that night because he was so angry with the racial fight. He was never the same after that.
      So as I got to know my husband more and more he told me how abusive and belittling his parents were not only to me and my son but to him as well. It had being going on for years. So understandably I started to see that the anger that was building in him had been slowly releasing but there was a huge explosion waiting.
      His parents would hassle me every day. He would go over to their house to try and stop them but to no avail.
      I ending up having a nervous breakdown and they said leave her she is mental. He told them to mind there own business that he would never leave me. So eventually I left HIM but this, to my ignorance was a bad move because this caused the horrors which could have not been prevented.
      When I left him I tried to move on with my life, but little did I know at the time that my best girlfriend who was Italian was seeing my in-laws on the sly behind my husband and my back to make up slander about me to get in the good books with them. So my husband was trying to get me back and his parents were telling him no. He wanted them to justify their hatered and with the lies from my so called girlfriend he had no hope of convincing them otherwise. So like an elastic band something had to give.
      Long story short I came back and he went and told them I was back and to not come back and annoy me. They were outraged and started on him again. He finally cracked and killed his father with an axe, stabbed his mother 27 times, came home to me I awoke in fright to see him standing looking over me and I asked why wasn’t he at work he assured me that everything was alright and to go back to sleep. I found out later if it wasn’t for the fact I had put my child in bed with me he intended on killing me and himself. So I guess the point I’m trying to make here is this, constant bullying constant abuse of any shape or form will eventually in SOME people make them crack. I don’t care what anyone says I now have PTSD for the rest of MY life, so what does it do to a child that is constantly bullied or abused into adulthood? Years and years of it. It’s very easy for people on the outside looking in on these people that do crack but remember this everyone has a tipping point, and I am Not condoning murder, but people have to understand a humans brain, an animals brain, we all get to a point where enough is enough some of us can walk away like I did, but some of us cannot. There is not enough mental help out there and some people don’t even realise they needed it until it’s too late. I guess what I’m trying to say is we all should be kinder to each other and be more tolerant if people are a bit thick or stupid or don’t do what we would like them to do. Because a bully creates another bully and so on. People need to communicate in a much more positive instead of a negative way. And I don’t mean social media, I mean the old fashioned way. But it seems I still live in a dream world that one day we will live together in peace, and the bully will not be created.

      • P. Mack

        Yeah but, did you have to make up a story to prove your point???

      • Pilar Johnson

        This is so well thought out and written… I am impressed with the logic of your argument and your understanding of human psychology. Thanks for sharing a new light on this horrible murder.
        God bless you and your child!

    • Tracy

      This woman was a nightmare. Her family was nothing but props to her and they needed to perform on command or she was angry. She spent them into bankruptcy and was well on her way to another one. She belittled her husband and treated him like a child. She would not LET him handle any of the money yet he was the one with perfect credit until he signed his life away to her and she destroyed it by her constant spending. She was not paying their house payments, homeowner fees, or credit cards so where was all the money going besides her and her vacations which were NOT full covered by Thrive – she had a room just for SHOES, nails, hair , the most expensive daycare in the state but she quit her job to stay at home and “never miss anything anymore” right?? I saw the video of their last Christmas and it was gut wrenching. She left poor CeCe upstairs screaming until she could not breathe crying for her daddy and Shannan ignored her so she could film yet ANOTHER video for FB. She was not a good wife or mother. Nobody deserves to be killed but you have to be blind to not see what led to this. She was taking that Thrive garbage while pregnant and giving it to the kids and she wondered why they were moody abd would not sit still? Chris was using double doses of it and never slept. That stuff is as dangerous as street drugs and does cause rage. I could not even list the ways this woman was a total fake if I had all day. I wish he had left instead of doing what he did but she was never going to allow that. She was going to use those kids as weapons as much as she could to keep him trapped and she drained him of all his money so what attorney could he get? She ruined him and he realized it way too late.

      • daytime350

        You are so right!! She was a friggin nightmare in every way possible… His life was doomed from the moment he met her and decided to take her and her monumental baggage on.

      • Christine Johnson

        Honestly a few months ago I would’ve argued with you about this. I’ve been following the case for over a year now and Thought Shanann was a perfect mom and wife and Chris was a horrible person. However after everything I’ve read On the case And I’m talking hours and hours of reading about it I have a change of heart. I feel Chris was bullied and belittled. And I’m not saying that Shanann man and the girls Deserve to be killed in no way!!!He should’ve got a divorce. But the women did live her life on social media pretending like she had a perfect family instead of living in the moment with her family..She had a closet for clothes like a movie star her children were in daycare full-time plus they had a babysitter I was under the impression that she was a stay at home mom taking care of the girls full-time and working from home that was not the case..She took them to bankruptcy by buying her clothes and constant spending…And actually saddens me how much she belittled Chris.. I read somewhere that she used to throw these nice parties and all her friends will bring the kids over and Chris would play with them upstairs but there’s no videos of that. Everything she did she made sure that it was on Facebook but you don’t see a lot of picture of him playing with the kids on Facebook. I know this doesn’t sound like any of my business and it’s not just expressing my two cents…But when you live your life on social media that much you got expect some opinions from people. If you want a quiet life you live a quiet life of a social media that simple.There are so many things that could’ve changed the way the outcome became if she didn’t go to North Carolina for weeks, Chris never had an affair, if Nicole would’ve walked away from a married man, I wish there was a better outcome and they just simply File for divorce ..The case Definitely one that I will think about for a long time…

      • youaresodumb

        dangerous as street drugs? lmaooo you must be on drugs to actually believe that. a simple google search of the ingredients list proves otherwise dear.

      • Karen Hamway

        I couldn’t agree more!
        Your comment is exactly what I was thinking, but too afraid to say.

      • Christina Murphy

        Yes yes and yes, I thank you so much for stating something I also have said. Shanann belittled him, humiliated him. Stopped him from seeing his family. He should never have murdered them but I can understand why.

    • P. Mack

      I understand she humiliated him on social media, but that still doesn’t validate what he did to his wife and innocent children!!!

  2. Pauline

    Yes, I know. That’s what Sharon Rocha cried from the stand to Scott Peterson in the penalty phase, why didn’t he consider divorce. But we’re not dealing here with a rational thinking being, by our standards at least. We have the end result, now we have to go back as far as we can to see how he got there. By his standards.

    • Vanessa Carey

      I completely agree. There are two different minds here. The blaming type and the others who sit back and think what lead to this. I am literally studying this case wondering about even the smallest details.

      • Kimmieb0313

        Same here. I’ve known about this case of course, as the entire world has, but I’ve just recently started really becoming super interested and delving deeply into it, studying every detail.

  3. Shannon

    I always wondered if he saw her awful posts about him.
    She was not a Nice person.

    • thetinytech2018

      She was nice… When you were doing what she wanted, when she wanted and exactly how she wanted.

      It speaks to the type of person I often see stay in an MLM long term. That part of the case is fascinating to me honestly. They’ve was her seventh, yes, seventh MLM that she had joined and failed at. That’s not her fault, MLMs are designed that way, nobody but the small few who started it and remain at the top make money.

      However the fact that she didn’t learn get lesson after one or two, well, isn’t the definition of crazy doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result? From the bankruptcy and the path they took after (that was the same as what initially led them to bankruptcy) to the multiple MLMs she blew money on but didn’t earn, there is something to be learned there regarding Shanann.

      MLMs have that same cult mentality as well. They all display three fake sentiments and success, wealth and harmonious relationships online, but do once thing they don’t like or dare to leave the MLM, and they’ll tear you down publicly and privately just as fast as they built you up.

      Whether she was looking for instant gratification from that “business”, from friends or from another source, I’m not 100% sure but Inge thing is for certain, she was trying to fill a hole. Not sure what was missing but the fake PDF, to the keeping up with the Jonses mentality, to the mass consumerism that she continued to take part in even after it jeopardized her family’s future, she certainly was trying to fill a void.

      You know what happy, successful people don’t do? Tell you that they’re happy and successful every 5 seconds or when given the opportunity like she did. She was trying to convince herself it seems.

      • daytime350

        You are correct… I had a best friend tell me that we couldn’t be friends anymore if I didn’t sign up under her… I said well “adios“…Now she’s not in it anymore either but so …I don’t need friends like that.

    • Chat

      I think she was a controlling, insecure selfish, greedy, imbecile.
      I couldn’t stand to hear her talk, she said “um” every other f****** word. Chris Watts is that guy that is just so quiet he will not fight back, he will just take it and take it and take it like the kid at school that is being bullied & he finally snapped. Shannon Watts drove him to kill her kids and to kill her. She was way too needy and insecure and aside from staying pregnant all the time no wonder he sought out a different woman. Chris Watts does not belong in a prison cell he belongs in a hospital where he can get psychological help! If I lived with somebody like shannan, I would
      have left that b**** a long time ago. Aside from her being a camera hog, she lived her life on social media which I find totally and utterly disgusting.
      Chris Watts deserves a medal for putting up with her for 8 years.
      I’m sorry she lost her life & especially the two little girls, but I can honestly say, she got what she bargained for.

      • Chit Chat

        Now….type all of that with a real name so we can show the world what a person who condones murder looks like.

        Ah, but I bet you won’t, you tough, keyboard warrior.

        • Kristi Foster-Barei

          What an Awesome reply !!

        • daytime350


      • Drama in Education

        So this “bitch” drove him to kill her to kill her and her kids. Really? She stayed pregnant all the time?
        She said “um” and she was on social media all the time.
        She was a camera “hog” too, eh? She was a ” controlling, insecure selfish, greedy, imbecile” you say. And she, “honestly… got what she bargained for.”
        This misogynistic view of the situation is why these things happen. You degrade a woman who is dead… strangled by the father of her babies and her unborn child … to an animal.
        She got what she “bargained for?”. He is a white,good looking, able bodied, educated, cisgender. straight male, leading a life of privilege and he was humiliating her as he continued and affair with another woman, he lied to ( she is just another woman… no big deal, just another commodity) . It is deep seeded belief that she had no value and was disposable as society has taught him that women are a commodity.
        It seems you too, believe that of women, in your vile description of a woman you don’t know who was murdered at the hands in the bed where they were most intimate. What about the little girls? They bargained for this? What did they do to lead their dad to kill them? Were they bitches and camera hogs who were. controlling, insecure selfish, greedy, imbeciles?

        • Kerri

          It’s a why, not an excuse. She was a bully and she created their financial woes. He should have left her and sought counseling, but her being bully is what makes the outcome not a surprise.

        • pronkingalpaca65

          WTF? He was leading a life of privilege living with that woman?! The affair should have come as absolutely no surprise to Shannan.

          She pushed him to the brink, humiliated him at every opportunity, spent every dime he made and more, and medically abused their innocent children.

          She was not a nice person; the fact that she is dead doesn’t change that.

        • Stfu

          At „Drama in Education“: I absolutely don‘t agree with what the original poster commented, but holy moly is race, gender and sexuality the only thing you can see and think about? Stop projecting your identity politics on others, it‘s disgusting how you can use this for your agenda.

      • P. Mack

        WOW!…what a horrible thing to say about the deceased. You do know that there’s a thing called “Divorce” if someone isn’t happy in their marriage!…Plan and simple, he could’ve asked for a divorce!

    • Kelly

      You know he did, in his confession he did mention he was incredibly resentful and had so much pent up anger for her.

    • Faithangeli

      Unless you actually know their dynamics, and her in particular, you have no right to spout your ridiculous judgment. The bottom line is, women love to make a home. It is obvious that she LOVED her children. She was nesting while doing with her FB posts. Their house was flawless. I’m sure her she took care of everything with the children and making everything beautiful for them as well as her husband. This man had multiple affairs. Why get married if that’s what you want to do? Sickening justification like yours makes the victim who is dead and not able to respond a shrew. That is what is wrong with your skewed ideation. For shame that you can mentally go there.

      • Bobby

        Exactly!!! Thankyou 🙏🏽 Finally someone has sense on this thread.

      • Tiffany

        You realize you’re also making judgments without knowing her or their dynamic. Just because your judgments are nice ones doesn’t make them any less speculation than anyone else’s. This entire post is honestly incredibly ignorant.
        “Women love to make house” is obviously an untrue statement as all women are different. We don’t come with an “omg I love to cook and clean” gene.
        She probably did love her children very much. I can’t dispute that in any way. But we can’t possibly know how good a parent or wife she was unless we were there with her behind closed doors.
        A well-kept house is not an indication of the nurture in her home. It could have been kept that way just for her videos. It could actually be used to prove the point that she was a surface level person who lived a fake life for the sake of appearing perfect.

        My personal opinion is that he had several weeks while she was gone to pack his things and leave. He could’ve even sold her unnecessary things to buy a plane ticket and go anywhere he wanted. There’s no world in which murder should’ve been his answer. She wasn’t THERE for two months, so the idea that he snapped and was pushed to do it is silly… regardless of our opinions of her.

  4. shauna snider

    No she was not. that’s why he fucked the shit out of nicol kessenger and mr. he has no game was, according to nicol, the best sex she had ever had in her entire life! Shannan does not seem like the type of woman who will go down on her man or allow him to enter her back door, and nicol was everything she was not, in his eyes. his sexual inexperience likely was a factor in him thinking he was so in love with nicol. Sex with shannan had to have been a total snoozefest. she emasculated him too much and was lame in the sack and he needed someone to make him feel like a man. shannan wore the pants in the relationship, she was extremely annoying and not only did she embarrass him in her posts, she also made him participate in a bunch of her dumb thrive vidoes, further humiliating him by making him dance to footloose, apply feminine products to his face mask and demonstrate how he uses it in his normal skin care routine, made him buy a santa costume and dress up like santa claus for her little wannabe reality show that only she was the star of. I think she was narcissistic. all of her videos she stares at herself as she is dismissive and bitchy to her husband and kids. its bizarre and im sure chris felt bullied into participating. if he did not, all hell would break lose with this woman. had he taken it to trial, I strongly believe he could’ve gotten a way lighter sentence because many people who saw shannans facebook live videos were questioning her mental health and stability. but unfortunately for him, he was not familiar with how police work a suspect, and he was pressured into admitting guilt, which was a bad move. had he just gotten a lawyer the moment shit started to get real, im convinced hed probably have been a free man once again, possibly in only a few years time. Shannan was that big of a bitch to him that people feel sympathy for him even though he murdered her and his own children. its fucked up but its just how a lot of people feel about the situation.

    • Lisa

      There are seriously no words that I have for a monster like you. Yes I use the term monster cause no real decent human being would ever post such ludicrous drivel. Wow I’m going to guess that your bed playmate is rosie palmer and her five friends.

      • thetinytech2018

        Lisa, this isn’t a place where we pretend Shanann was an angel and ignore the fact that she was a human being like everyone else. Nobody is saying any of them deserved what happened because nobody here believes that, we’re all in agreement that he did a heinous thing. Crime however, doesn’t exist in a vacuum and neither did this family. It’s easy to say “he snapped” or “he was crazy” but this isn’t a lifetime movie and there’s a reason why someone who had no history of violence one day goes and does something like this. Nobody knows his motive and perils are still uncovering things as much of what was reported, like her making any money from that pyramid scheme, has been verified as false.

        If you don’t like the discussion here that is certainly your prerogative, but if you’re not going to do any reading or any research please go back to your people magazine articles where they cover fluff and nothing else.

    • Kat5566

      Sympathy? For Christopher Watts?!? Because his wife was bitchy and bossy sometimes??? Awwww. Poor little Chris. With his mean Ole wife constantly belittling him. Yep. She sure did post a lot of videos about him on Facebook. And as for any derogatory Facebook videos she posted about Chris, they looked more to be teasing him then demeaning him. I mean come on. The cookie sheet / parchment paper video? LOL. That was funny. She didn’t post that to demean her husband, she probably thought it was funny herself. And you know what? I don’t give a flying fuck if she was the biggest bitch on the planet. He should have left her. Not killed her. And even IF, —-and it’s a big if— anyone could feel sympathy or even remotely understand why he killed shanann….. then please, tell me why did the little girls have to die too? ???Huh???? Why?!? There was a
      absolutely NO reason those sweet innocent little girls needed to die, other than their despicable Pig of a father wanting to start a new life with a SKANK named Nicole, that he’s only known for six weeks. And yes. This bitch is a skank. She knew damn well he was married. She even admitted to that. I don’t care that he told her he was “separating from shanann”….. The skank had the audacity to go in to Shannan’s house while she and and the girls were in North Carolina.. and I’m pretty sure unless she’s a complete and total moron, she could tell they were nowhere near separating.. so, Nicole Kessinger is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. And she
      had designs on Chris at least a year before the two started their raunchy ass fucking affair. She Googled Shannan Watts’ name back in September of 2017. So she is a piece of shit too. Nobody could ever have sympathy on either one of these disgusting selfish people. Ever.

      • Fairhangeli

        I agree with most of everything you said, however I am tired of women putting down other women who fall for, in this case, a narcissistic person who cheated on his wife. Women need to be more supportive of other women, like the neighbor. That was a true friend.

        This woman involved was young, and emotions/hormones fly high when you meet someone new and become intimate. Men are the skank‘s when cheating on their wives. The problem with society and women in general, as well as the media will annihilate women first even when it is the man married who should bear the repercussions .

      • Ashley

        Thank God someone said it!

    • Chat

      I agree 100%, I’m glad I don’t feel that way alone. As soon as I heard her talk I wanted to puke, and the videos with poor Chris in the background jumping through fire hoops and doing a dog and pony show at her command was absolutely sickening… she was a bossy, needy, codependent, whiny POS but she did not deserve to be murdered nor did those two little girls. She drove him to it with her constant nagging.

  5. Shannon

    Well Shauna.
    Thank you.

  6. critter

    “If Shan’ann could do this on a public platform, what did she say and do when she was really angry with her husband?”

    I can’t help wondering if the reason he felt he had to kill his kids as well was something she said in anger when he asked for a separation. “You can’t do this to the girls, they’ll grow up hating you, I’ll tell them you’re worthless, you’re ruining their lives.” Chris does seem to have at least some fondness for his girls in some of the earlier videos, did Shan’ann know that and wield the kids as weapons? If that’s the case, then Chris might have justified killing the girls in his mind as a combination of mercy killing and de-fanging his wife. (In fact, the mercy killing aspect has two sides. One, shielding them from being kids of divorced parents; and two, shielding them from Shan’ann, someone he hated and thought was cruel, getting primary custody.)

    (I’m going here with the idea that he killed the girls first, while Shan’ann was away. Did we ever get an answer to who died when?)

    Then, when she got back from the trip, he would already feel smug, already feel like he’d pulled one over on her while she was away and she didn’t even know about it. The power dynamic had shifted at that point, and Chris felt empowered to get back at Shan’ann.

    Of course, this theory doesn’t really take his mistress into account, but if he already told NK that he had two kids and asked her for help finding a place for him and his girls, maybe he *had* been willing at first to just leave, get a divorce and let NK be stepmom.

  7. Lisa

    First let me start off by saying this is the most despicable article that I have read in a long time. Do you have any idea that what you are doing right now by writing and posting this article is what is called victim blaming? Maybe you should check that out there are plenty of resources online that can tell you all about victim blaming. Once you’ve read them it should then become apparent to you that you are one of those despicable human beings that victim blames. So what you are saying is that because she put up some posts, that were meant in jest not to belittle, that that’s the reason she and her 2 little girls (remember ages 2 and 4) and a fetus were brutally murdered then discarded like trash? What you have here is a case of a narcissistic psychopath (Chris Watts) but his actions are all justified because of some posts put up on facebook, again in jest. I am going to guess that you are a man. Only a man who hates women would but something this horrendous up on the internet. I think you really should seek some help for your issues, and this isn’t me insulting you, I really think you need to obtain some professional help. I also think that you should never be allowed to ever write on this website or any other website as a matter of fact. Seriously this is absolutely appalling.

    • nickvdl

      Hi Lisa

      You seem to be throwing an awful lot of mud for someone who is against victim blaming.

      I don’t expect you to think about it any differently, now while the information and emotion is still raw. Perhaps in a few months or years you’ll be able to see that things cannot be so simplistic where any commentary that doesn’t fit into Shan’ann = innocent, good, perfect and Chris Watts = evil, bad, monster, is evil and victim blaming.

      This word seems to be your attempt to suppress and punish and victimise dissenters.

      In your world, someone is either all good, or all bad. In the real world, good people aren’t perfect and do bad stuff, and bad people are also sometimes good, kind, even devoted and generous for a spell.

      Many folks like you don’t understand that in the process of thoroughly examining a true crime case, all aspects are examined. A cursory glance through the subject matter of this blog, which entails hundreds of posts, raises questions against virtually everyone – witnesses, mistresses, cops, family members, dogs. So is there victim blaming against everyone – witnesses, mistresses, cops, family members, dogs? Or are we trying to think critically and analytically about every possible aspect?

      And so, yes, in the process, we also try to understand what was going on in the monster’s mind. I get you don’t want to have that conversation or think about it, but some people do. It’s how we try to understand why. Why doesn’t mean we are saying it’s a reasonable reason, or it’s justified. The motive is why the criminal did what we did. Do you see the distinction?

      In a court of law when the prosecutor gives the motive, he’s not saying: “So, your honor, I understand why the murderer murdered, and I’d have done the same if I was him.” He’s saying – this was the criminal’s mindset and motive, and he should be punished for it.

      In other words, any discussion on motive doesn’t automatically qualify the discussion as victim blaming, much as you would like it to.

      I wrote this post especially to deal with the sort of accusations you are making:

    • Leslie W Wiebe

      Right!! And belittling? Not quite. She’s just horsing around because it really is very funny! I actually think its endearing. My husband would leave a response LIKE “LOL. Like you’re perfect?”. Please. Someone always has to insert drama.

      • nylady

        I feel sorry your husband

        • Shannon

          How old are you?

      • nylady

        ..for your husband.

    • Kat5566

      Thank you Lisa! I agree 100%. And I just posted almost word-for-word what you just said a minute ago before I read your post.

    • Crat

      Opinions are like assholes everybody has one.
      There are also two sides to every story and from what everyone has seen from shannan she was bossy and controlling and belittled him to the point where he snapped. She was nothing but a bully.

    • Jolie Paradis

      Realistically, there are times when the victim deserves a portion of the blame, Lisa. This is one of those times.

    • pronkingalpaca65

      People are entitled to their opinions as long as they agree with yours? Nick has been more than fair in his coverage of this case.

    • Yusuki

      Have you ever heard of the YouTube parents who “played pranks” on their children? They would falsely accuse their kids of doing bad things and say they are in big trouble, they’d scare them, give them fake bad news, all “in jest”, “because it’s funny”.
      It led to their children being taken away for abuse. It caused mental harm and distrust and rage in the children.
      Teasing and picking at someone isn’t always funny, even if you’re intentions are totally pure. It can eat away at someone’s confidence and doing it over and over can cause permanent issues.
      I don’t mean this is a “Chris is a victim” kind of way– because he definitely should’ve just left. I’m just saying “she meant to be funny” isn’t a good excuse to constantly belittle your partner, unless it’s VERY well established that they like to joke around like that.

      • Janie

        I agree! In fact let’s just take Chris Watts out of the picture for a moment , since everyone seems to think that those who point out that he was belittled by his wife are “victim blamers.” Can those people please explain the behavior of a mother who continually makes her children say hi to her FB viewers, before their needs are met? For example the fact that they were hungry and she wouldn’t share her new Thrive bars because she had to try them first. Yet the children are scolded to perform and act happy and obsessively say hi. How about the videos where they are making Christmas cookies, yet aren’t allowed to participate at all. Or the Santa Claus video where the girls are terrified and then belittled by their own mother for not going along with her narcissistic video only to be subjected to name calling as she did when she called Bella The Grinch. Not sure about anyone else, but I have no memories of my children sobbing on Christmas. It sickens me to see the way she tortures her children and then laughs and makes fun of them. So again with Chris Watts and her murder out of this scenario, does anyone want rto defend that behavior? Did any of her family and friends ever pull her aside and tell her that this type of behavior may be harmful to her children, let alone her marriage? My guess is no, because you were all under this control freak’s spell of no one is going to tell me what to do. Look what happened to Cindy Watts when she disagreed with her. If you really cared about that family, someone should have called CPS and reported her!

        • Gwyn Blackwood

          Janie, there’s some information here that is quite interesting. I encourage you to go read this persons blog also. Gives a great compare and contrast since none of us really know what happened that fateful day.

        • Opendoor

          It amazes me too. So many inappropriate things, and people just rave about what a great mom she is. I guess I have different ideas on that, too.
          I saw that video, too, showing what happened to the kids. What amazes me is…Chris didn’t try to stop it. Camera or no camera, who would allow their kids to be treated like that? Then all of the medical stuff with the “oh boy!” online comments. Why no one tried to intervene for the kids’ sakes.

      • Opendoor

        It’s like the “I’m just kidding” kind of thing…like it’s a free pass to do anything.

  8. Jessica

    What really freaked me out, well it all has, but especially the fact that he dumped his little girls dead bodies in the oil drums. Not only that but the openings were 8 inches. So he must have broken their little bones to get them in 😢😢😢 I can see why he maybe could have felt sick of his wife, maybe even hatred. So get a divorce! And killing your own flesh and blood? Wow

  9. nylady

    I think the man was verbally and emotionally abused over the course of the relationship, what was it 6 or 8 years? Clearly, he wasn’t the man she wanted him to be and she wasn’t going to stop until he was.
    Continued, relentless abuse, criticism, belittling and shaming wears on a person and creates nothing but resentment. She had no respect for him. His mother said she was critical of him in front of his family. I don’t think he intended to kill her that night, there were so many holes in his story he was arrested two days later. The girls must have still been alive. I think she went ballistic when she came home and he said he wanted to separate. It’s clear this man would never have had another happy moment in his life if he her. From that point on, he lost whatever ability he had to think rationally. I know why he did what he did to her, but there’s no way you can do such a thing to your own two little children and be in your right mind. It’s not possible.

    • Leslie W Wiebe

      Oh, please. I think CW had the intellectual and maturity level of a 12 year old. She probably had to wash his backside because of his helplessness. He was her 3rd child.He probably left a trail of dirty clothes wherever he went in that house and that shit gets old. Real fast. I don’t care how much you love the man, if you don’t pull your weight and think your wife is your mommy while she’s raising two toddlers and running a household, you NEED to be bossed around. This was guy was a weenie.

      • Shannon

        You couldn’t be more wrong about Chris or the case. Maybe do some Real Research before you comment.

  10. Linda Tobin

    All I can say is wow, I can’t believe the naming and shaming of this poor woman.There is no doubt there may have been times when Shanann took the mickey out of this monster, nevertheless there were numerous examples of her speaking of her love and appreciation for him as a husband and father.
    Why quote the mother in law who seemed quite happy to give her own grandchild nuts when this could have had a huge detrimental on the child.She also was happy to criticise Shanann frequently instead of supporting her son’s choice of partner.
    Shanann worked hard for her family, she was obviously a fantastic mum and loved her girls.She used social media as part of her business,I listened to her distressed former high school teacher ( who also became her friend ) describe her as an amazing inspirational woman.Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but I have been so upset about the obliteration of Watts entire family, I cannot get this case out of my mind, unlike Chris Watts who has shown not one once of remorse for what he has done to his beautiful family.
    I for one take absolute delight in knowing that he will spend the rest of his days looking over his shoulder, feeling fear just like his little girls and wife did on the day he snuffed out their lives.

  11. Mustang Sally

    Nick, if I may ask…are you inclined to be naturally more introverted or extroverted?

    • Mustang Sally

      Lol then delete the question too. 😜

  12. nylady

    With all due respect, no one is shaming the victim. There are no circumstances that could justify what he did to her and their unborn child. But what seems to have happened is she’s been made out to be a saint because of that, and I don’t think that’s the case. She knew he wanted to leave, she just would not let him. She had him cornered and cutoff from his family. They were up to their eyeballs in debt, again. He had no outlet, nowhere and no one to turn to. It’s a tragedy beyond words. And I have no idea how he manages to go on, he has to relive that night over and over in his head and in his dreams. That in itself is a living hell. God have Mercy on his soul. The only small consolation, if you could call it that, is that Shan’ann will rest in eternity with her children.

    • godisntreal

      heaven isn’t real, you believe in a bronze age fairy tale. they are rotting in the ground, dead. there is no life after death buddy.

  13. Twodogs

    I too, am appalled, especially the vivid description of his girls being stuffed into the pipes. But, I understand this importance of this thread. Chris, shown on the neighbors camera, reminded me of a person in a state of shock, mixed with the excitement of a new girlfriend, but in denial of doing anything wrong. People do not feel and show emotion or pain in certain degrees of shock. Some people do not immediately feel regret, during that confusing, idiotic state of lust, that is so often confused with love. But, even in the idiotic state, the majority of spouses simply move out, file for divorce or just walk away from their family altogether to be with the other person. It’s not like chris and his children were in a brutal, burning bed situation. I regretted watching the videos, because it’s so difficult to get the image of what he did out of my head. But, we only learn truths and receive answers when we are able to leave judgement behind. Sometimes we even learn the necessity for compassion in all circumstances. For instance, a person described as gentle and patient, murdered his family in a cruel, crude and IDIOTIC manner. By IDIOTIC, I mean the way Chris continued to talk about his girlfriends idea of selling the house, and moving to an apartment, as if he didn’t do anything wrong. It reminds me of a person who found two dogs traveling together. Both dogs loved and protected each other. They were both sweet dogs. Both dogs loved people and other dogs but one of the dogs, always did what he was told, and was seemingly calmer and more patient than the other. The seemingly calmer and more patient dog, would get so excited when his owner came home, his entire body wiggled and synchronized with his tail. One day, unexpectedly, this incredibly patient sweet dog, viciously attacked and killed the dog he had traveled with, loved and protected. Afterwards the dog turns to greet his owner, all happy and wagging his tail, like he didn’t do anything wrong. So the dogs owner is horrified and takes the dog to the vet to put the dog down. The vet tells the dogs owner, all the known reasons a gentle dog suddenly turns violent. Sometimes it’s jealousy or fear and sometimes the dog has a brain tumor. The owner opts to having the vet scan the dogs brain. The scan shows that the dog does have a brain tumor….. suddenly, everyone stops judging the dog that killed because… is, what it is.

  14. Leslie W Wiebe

    BFD. What was the context? Was she making fun of Chris or was she making fun of husbands? Whichever, I find it to be totally innocuous spousal banter. If this kind of stuff wore down Chris watts’ psyche, then she really got the short end of the stick marrying such an insecure little mouse.

    • nickvdl

      So if I understand your argument, their marriage was perfect, and Shan’ann never did anything to upset her husband, and he never felt humiliated.
      He had absolutely no reason to do what he did. His motive for murder had nothing to do with what was happening situationally, contextually, or who anyone was. He sort of committed murder at random. He is all evil and she is all good. So he committed murder basically just because? Have I summed it up correctly?

    • Rene

      Amen!!! If my husband does something silly I tease him too. Very much like this. I can only hope he doesnt murder me & my kids bcz of it then have a bunch of people say I had it coming for teasing him. How dare I!! I see a loving wife who was a great mom who worked hard despite her illnesses & kept a very clean organized home her family could be proud of. I see a loyal caring mom. If its some teasing on FB or cheating on Tinder behind your spouses back? Ill take a teasing!!

      • Cecelia Taylor

        I totally agree w you. I can’t believe the criticism Shannan is getting. She seemed like an awesome wife and mother and all people say is how controlling she was. Unbelievable!

        • Opendoor

          Have you watched all of the videos with the kids?

  15. Shannon

    I think some people here are newbies and don’t understand the reasons why these or any murders happen. Maybe read up on other murders to see how other people die.

    • weinsp

      I agree.

      • Opendoor

        I agree, too, but they should make sure they know what’s going on. Believing the narrative of the Facebook videos of a perfect life is really naive. I felt very uncomfortable with how she treated the kids…on the camera…imagine when there was no filming.

  16. Lee

    There is a difference between looking at the dynamics of a marriage to better figure out the motive and saying things like “she drove him to it.” Some people, in the comments, are outright saying that she got what she deserved. That is the problem with this. If your title was something like “dynamics in the Watts Marriage May Have Contributed to the Murders,” people would be much more likely to have an open mind about your post.

    Not one of us is perfect. Shan’an used her FB as marketing for her business, so it was, of course, a little staged, like many of ours are. I don’t see it as humiliating. It depends entirely on the couple. Some banter like that in public; some don’t. If he was offended, felt bullied or humiliated, there were a million other recourses rather than murder. At one point that night, he made a choice. It’s likely he made that choice at least the night before, as police documents show his attempt to build an alibi. He chose to murder his entire family, including his tiny girls, one who fought back so hard she bit through her tongue.

    And what about the way he tried to blame her for killing their children? That’s almost worse than the actual crime! How does that fit into your analysis of him as a bullied, cowed man?
    Again, I am all about analysis, but this goes beyond that to put at least some of the blame for her own murder (and the murder of her children) on Shan’an. And that is indefensible.

  17. Sophia

    There is no perfect human being, but murder is murder. It doesn’t matter what Shan-Ann did on Facebook or the desperate threats made during a heated argument.

    He cheated and chose not to move on. He killed his wife, unborn child and two daughters. Anyone who chooses to supress hatred or keep it contained, only to have it explode in such an awful and evil manner had to have psychological issues to begin with. He had a retarded and skewed understanding about reality. He did not own his family and to think he had the rights to end their lives, is truly repulsive.

    I am tired of people making excuses that he was bullied and he reacted. He was an extremely flawed human being and lacked the undying love many parents have for their children. He lacked that feeling of warmth and beauty when looking upon his own flesh and blood. He smothered his daughter while the other sat watching. He shoved their bodies into tiny openings. He did not care for any of them. He only cared about his life and his future alone.

    We have to stop trying to make excuses for people and their shortcomings. We have to stop blaming others for someone’s heinous crimes. Instead, we should focus on early detection of psychological issues. We cant live in a bubble and continue to embrace ignorance and stupidity.

    Although, Chris Watts was a quiet person, he was very much self involved and had a very weird way of looking at life. He tried every way possible to justify murder in his mind. He is a very sick coward.

    • Faithangeli

      Shauna- If you are actually a woman, you need to be put on the radar for psychopathy.
      You are either a sick older man with a female name or one of those women that are so messed up in the head that you would murder and hurt another woman for a man. Either way you are sick.

  18. metalgirl1981

    I am amazed how many people are willing to turn a dead person particularly a murdered person into a saint. She was not. She really wasn’t a very nice person on Facebook. I did feel that she humiliated him at every turn. Sometimes it was more subtle and others blatant. Of course that doesn’t give him the right to murder her or those babies. But we have to look at these cases honestly and objectively, hopefully another to save a life. Social media does have a lot to do with this. It’s hard enough to be humiliated in front of family and friends, but when you’re humiliated in front of the entire world it can do things to a person that may not be too stable. Clearly Chris Watts was not capable of standing up for himself. But it’s unreasonable for us to think this man who had no history of domestic violence or criminal history of any kind out of nowhere murdered his family without psychopathy within the marriage.

  19. Cecelia Taylor

    Why is Chris Watts receiving pity from some of you? That’s what it sounds like. He is a murderer, liar and cheater. And yet, y’all are talking about how Shannan humiliated HIM? Really? Unbelievable. I say Shannan was way too good for that creep. She seemed like the kind of wife any man would want. Except those who’d rather have a nasty ho. I hope he gets killed in prison.

    • Ralph Oscar

      Sounds like you have nothing to offer the investigation here.

      So why are you here? Do you just randomly cruise around the internet trying to find places to criticize and scold people? How many scoldings a day do you need to issue in order to feel satisfied?

      If you do not wish to participate in and contribute to the ongoing investigative efforts here – and you obviously don’t – then why are you here?

      I’ll bet you’re a lot of fun to live around. Do you walk in on your neighbors when they’re sitting around with friends minding their own business and take it upon yourself to announce to them that they’re all Bad and Wrong?

    • Jolie Paradis

      Angry much?

  20. Common sense

    He never actually loved her. That is the original sin in their marriage. After enough of his passive aggression and emotional neglect, her own resentment began to grow and show. It started with him, don’t you dare try to spin it any other way.

    He was fat when she married him. He lost weight, gained confidence, and tried to shed his family like an exoskeleton.

    • JC

      Not true, according to the Rzuceks themselves. They’ve said publicly that they believe he loved her, was emotionally supportive, and very attentive to his wife throughout their marriage. And they lived with the family for months and months. Any emotional neglect he was guilty of didn’t begin to occur until the day after she left for NC. Shan’ann herself told him and others that as well.

      Would you tell her family “don’t you dare try to spin it any other way?”

      • nickvdl

        Good point. And remember what she said about him being “the best thing that’s ever happened to me.”

        • richard

          Nick, Do you think there is anything in the post’s Shanann kept posting about ‘Chris is the best thing’… ‘best husband in the world’…. type love bombing thing ?

          I could be reading into this too much but I wonder if Shanann done this to keep his attention on her or if Chris was demanding of this from Shanann.
          i.e. being used as a security measure by one of both

          I could be completely wrong but Shanann seemed to post things like this quite regularly on FB

          • nickvdl

            I think a big part of it was keeping up appearances. To show the world they were Thriving and thus make more money.

          • nickvdl

            But yes, there probably was a kind of coercion by social media as well. This is why I think Shan’ann was so adamant on doing the gender reveal. It would force him, based on societal pressure, to stay in the marriage.

  21. daytime350

    Shanann pushed too hard too long and sent him over the edge…financially, emotionally and no self-esteem left with her. But she did underestimate how much he would take.

  22. kavy

    I think we all create what we need.

  23. Rod

    This is why I believe Cindy Watts when she said she didn’t like the way Shanann treated Chris. To post your spouses mistakes on Facebook for the sake of getting all your friend to agree with you and laugh at their expense is abuse, plain and simple. It’s sad things turned out the way they did, but it just goes to show that things like this don’t suddenly happen for no reason at all.

  24. Jim

    I found the original poster to be wickedly insightful and so I thoroughly engaged in the many posts on here. I found people’s opinions on this case to vary wildly and it made for an entertaining read. Unfortunately the being “entertained” aspect of my experience filled me with some guilt and eventually sadness. I remembered the victims and the families destroyed by this heinous crime and my heart was no longer into the “why”. In the end what does it matter? They’re all gone and he’s the reason. End of story.

  25. Gifted

    I don’t know why I’m even here. I guess it’s the Netflix documentary I viewed a few days ago. I remember researching the case via numerous youtube vids of the case. I also watched a lot of Shananns vids of herself, the kids and Chris. I think she was a full throttle type of person. She had past problems in her own life and had turned things around. She dumped all her eggs in one big basket when it came to Chris and I believe she really wasn’t that happy with him. And vice versa…he was tired of her too. I think his mom Cindy was and is a narcissistic person, and I think Chris himself had a very co dependent relationship with her and his family in general. I think Chris never felt good about himself and heard that his sister Sarah was the golden child, while he was the quiet one. I think his mom was probably more critical of him than his sister and he was of a dopey sort that frustrated her. Anyway, once he met Shannan she didn’t like the type of person she was. I think it’s very likely that Shannan was a lot LIKE CINDY in ways. Or rather, in a covert way, Cindy was like Shannan, but without the confidence. Having said this, I’m not sure Shannan was narcissistic but she was very self centered, passive aggressive and needed to be in control at all times. Cindy and her clashed because they were similar sorts. And perhaps, as Chris gained MORE of Cindy’s acceptance because he had actually achieved many things she thought him incapable of, she didn’t like now how Shanann controlled him, put him down and needed to be constantly in the limelight. I think Shanann was always a strong willed person. She did what she set out to do whether she succeeded or failed. She had all the support of her own family, but didn’t like that she had to put up with a controlling or P/A MIL.
    My thinking is that Chris was emotionally stunted and angry from the years of feeling less than in his own family and then being controlled and belittled by his wife. I also think finances weighed heavily upon him and the constant filming and having it uploaded online was too much. I think as long as Shannan felt he was under her control and on her side she felt secure, but the moment she sensed he was waffling, she began insulting his family, making him choose etc. While she was visiting her family in NC she texted with friends telling them about their problems and how he wasn’t interested in sex. I think his mental health was collapsing. I think her emotional health was collapsing because he began drifting aways from her and she was pissed. At the end, I think he knew he was going to kill her but really didn’t think anything through. Sex with Nicole was the boost to his fragile ego he never got. Sadly, he went to the dark side and let it take him over. A person like Chris Watts who had a little capacity for expressing his true nature, lacked a strong bond with his own children (just kind went through the motions) and had a very weak ego strength made worse by Shanann’s domineering personality sent him over the edge. The other thing is that Shananns several illnesses plus a car accident, plus a past abusive relationship made her look like a person who used these things to get attention and a ‘feel sorry for me but now I’m a success’ as a backstory for her online marketing career. Even if any of this is true, constantly being ill and or talking about your illness or making everything ABOUT YOU and what you’re always trying to accomplish left Chris with even less of an identity and overwhelmed by whatever life script his wife was directing. Nevertheless, what he did to his wife and those innocent children leaves NO room for empathy here. You can certainly see how psychologically these two people were NOT well suited to each other and how given Chris Watts deeper darker machinations he kept suppressed his brain was looking for a release and an escape. In the end in a way, Shannann reminded him of his mother and I believe in a very real way he hated her.

  26. Helen

    I too watched the Netflix documentary. Shannan was belittling her children too. Did you pick up on that ? “if you keep falling off Daddy, then he won’t let you sit on his back any longer..”. For pete sake ! Let a kid act like a kid! The girls were having fun falling off Chris’ back. But nope–there Shannan was…nag nag nag. She put her children on display for the ‘perfect’ family. She so belittled Chris–all the time. Shannan learned to nag somewhere..her mom? Dad?

  27. Gely

    Doesn’t matter how Shannan was with him in their relationship her and those little girls did not deserve to be murdered!! This was an act of cruelty, evilness and selfishness on his behalf and all cause he was being a nasty horn dog with another girl he had only known for a short amount of time! And what a bunch of idiots some of you are feeling bad for this monster who didn’t have the balls to just be straight out with his wife and get a divorce instead of doing what he did 😤

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