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Did Chris Watts not mind his wife Shan’ann humiliating him on Facebook?

In TWO FACE I discuss the seemingly esoteric subject of man as a symbolic animal, and as a symbolic animal, how we are nourished [validated] with symbols that mean things to us. Flags, colors, brands, songs – the human experience is awash with things that enhance our experience of the world. But just as an animal who is nourished on symbols can find them infinitely and exquisitely validating, he can also be infinitely and excruciatingly invalidated.

Facebook is a great example of a simple symbolic schema that, if we allow it, determines our worth. We measure ourselves [our social power] and one another [their social power] by the number of friends, likes and and interactions we get on social media, and we especially value gestures of reinforcement from people that are important, or important to us. There three dynamics at play on social media. My social power, yours, and then the dynamic between mine and yours. In other words, who am I vis-a-vis everyone else, and who are you vis-a-vis me, and everyone else.

The magic of Thrive is how it’s designed to be a system where a nobody can be thrown a social media life-buoy and turned into somebody by legions of other MLM nobodies all hellbent on same need for social self-enrichment [and the piles of gold coins anticipated to go along with that]. You sing my praises and I’ll sing yours. You follow me and I’ll follow you. I make you rich, give you free stuff, and you do the same for me. It’s brilliant, because everyone wins. Right?

We’ve seen Shan’ann singing her husband’s praises as her Rock, the love of her life, the one for her, the one who stood by her, someone who she considered “amazing” as a man, a husband and a father. Validating, right?

Now imagine what this feels like.

To understand what’s really going on here, Shan’ann actually took out her camera and snapped a picture demonstrating her husband’s idiocy after giving him instructions. What this reveals isn’t just someone who’s used to barking out a lot of orders, but someone who expresses anger and contempt when her servant falls short.

It’s unlikely the picture in the above post is from the two Christmasses past. But the fact that Shan’ann would go to the effort to demo how dumb her partner was in this instance to better and more fully illustrate her point and share it on social media [note the face palms] says something about a tendency to “borrow strength” from her Facebook flock when her husband fell out of favor.

It wasn’t enough to chastise him in private, he needed to punished, to be flogged in public.

In another post she uses seven face palms to make her point, all symbolic emoticons that, if Chris Watts saw them, would tend to invalidate all the flattering stuff Shan’ann had said about him previously.

Now imagine this. Imagine when you’re being validated it’s not because of something real that you did, or because of some genuine encouragement, but rather it’s part of a spiel to sell patches. Who he is is simply and conveniently expropriated for economies of scope to tip the social media scales in her favor. But then, at other times, when he’s being invalidated, well, that’s real. That’s based on real life. Nothing is being sold there except the abounding truth that he’s an idiot.

In either case, Shan’ann is turning to Facebook to be her megaphone about her feelings.

It’s a betrayal.

Each and every one of those face palms is deeply invalidating, it’s the complete opposite of the feel-good factor of social media mentioned earlier.

By anchoring praise in Thrive-themed promotion on the one hand and anchoring criticism to reality in the other, Shan’ann’s exposing herself as a capricious charlatan, at least in terms of her marriage. He sees all too clearly her contempt for him; he’s become only good enough as a prop in her business, and a fake one at that [and they both know it].

If Shan’ann could do this on a public platform, what did she say and do when she was really angry with her husband?

Without knowing anything about the Watts case other than the fact that their were three victims [and the unborn Niko], it’s abundantly clear there was an excess of sadism in this particular crime.  To be clear, all crimes are sadistic. Sadism is the intentional effort to benefit at another’s expense. I kill you, you’re dead, I live at your expense and hopefully I flourish at your expense. The more murders the more sadism.

The Watts Family murders is one of the most sadistic family murders I’ve come across, though it’s no match for the sadism of the Van Breda axe murders, where a 20-year-old hacked to death both parents, his older brother and his younger sister [who ultimately survived].

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The Watts case feels gentler than axe murders, but consider the level of sadism to carry out one, then another, then a third strangling?  There’s also something particularly reprehensible about killing one’s own children, as well as this idea of quiet man quietly killing three innocent, helpless females in his care and custody.

If strangling is less sadistic than murder by axe, the carefully crafted disposal of the remains in oil drums and dirt feels coolly calculated, cruel and heartless. As if people he once knew as family, as a wife, as his own flesh and blood children, had suddenly been alchemised into garbage, and once they were garbage they could all be treated as such. And not a single tear shed in regret or remembrance.

Wherever there is sadism, there is anality. They go hand in hand. And wherever there is anality, there is humiliation. Without knowing anything about the Watts case it was immediately obvious that there was an extreme amount of humiliation somehow at play in the family dynamics.

We’re starting to see evidence of that now. This is just the tip of the iceberg, and the humiliation, mark my words, isn’t limited just to what the murderer felt…

131 Comments

  1. Pauline

    I can see that. He was bossed around, mercilessly. Even her brother Frankie comes to his defense. Perhaps he had heard it before, with Leonard T. King. Bitching on facebook is so public, it’s shameful. Posting your bitches. But it’s not like none of us have done it, is it? To a friend, perhaps, about another friend – but Chris would have been able to read these, wouldn’t he have? And at some point I think he was wracking up the points in his negative column.

    • piktor

      So what. Divorce the oppressor wife. Happens all the time in History.

      Instead comes up with a patent no-game Watts Final Solution.

      Can’t call it ‘a plan’.

    • Carmen

      I have commented on this case before having lived through something similar.
      I will try and explain the way I felt and still feel. When I first met my now ex husband he was very charming and everyone thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, however after we got engaged I wondered why he didn’t want sex. I tried but he didn’t want to. I found this strange . So anyway one night I tried again but this time something in him changed and he raped me violently. Now you are all thinking why did I marry him?
      1. He apologised to me and told me that he would never do it again. But Did I believe him?
      2. The invitations were out and I was embarrassed to tell anyone and who would believe me? After all he was the perfect man!
      3. I had a son to a previous relationship and he loved him like his own child.
      His parents hated me and told him if he married me that they would not attend the wedding. He said don’t come I don’t care I love her and her son.
      The wedding.
      The parents came.
      Three fights at the wedding one was racial as I am Australian he is Italian.
      He changed again that night because he was so angry with the racial fight. He was never the same after that.
      So as I got to know my husband more and more he told me how abusive and belittling his parents were not only to me and my son but to him as well. It had being going on for years. So understandably I started to see that the anger that was building in him had been slowly releasing but there was a huge explosion waiting.
      His parents would hassle me every day. He would go over to their house to try and stop them but to no avail.
      I ending up having a nervous breakdown and they said leave her she is mental. He told them to mind there own business that he would never leave me. So eventually I left HIM but this, to my ignorance was a bad move because this caused the horrors which could have not been prevented.
      When I left him I tried to move on with my life, but little did I know at the time that my best girlfriend who was Italian was seeing my in-laws on the sly behind my husband and my back to make up slander about me to get in the good books with them. So my husband was trying to get me back and his parents were telling him no. He wanted them to justify their hatered and with the lies from my so called girlfriend he had no hope of convincing them otherwise. So like an elastic band something had to give.
      Long story short I came back and he went and told them I was back and to not come back and annoy me. They were outraged and started on him again. He finally cracked and killed his father with an axe, stabbed his mother 27 times, came home to me I awoke in fright to see him standing looking over me and I asked why wasn’t he at work he assured me that everything was alright and to go back to sleep. I found out later if it wasn’t for the fact I had put my child in bed with me he intended on killing me and himself. So I guess the point I’m trying to make here is this, constant bullying constant abuse of any shape or form will eventually in SOME people make them crack. I don’t care what anyone says I now have PTSD for the rest of MY life, so what does it do to a child that is constantly bullied or abused into adulthood? Years and years of it. It’s very easy for people on the outside looking in on these people that do crack but remember this everyone has a tipping point, and I am Not condoning murder, but people have to understand a humans brain, an animals brain, we all get to a point where enough is enough some of us can walk away like I did, but some of us cannot. There is not enough mental help out there and some people don’t even realise they needed it until it’s too late. I guess what I’m trying to say is we all should be kinder to each other and be more tolerant if people are a bit thick or stupid or don’t do what we would like them to do. Because a bully creates another bully and so on. People need to communicate in a much more positive instead of a negative way. And I don’t mean social media, I mean the old fashioned way. But it seems I still live in a dream world that one day we will live together in peace, and the bully will not be created.

      • P. Mack

        Yeah but, did you have to make up a story to prove your point???

      • Pilar Johnson

        This is so well thought out and written… I am impressed with the logic of your argument and your understanding of human psychology. Thanks for sharing a new light on this horrible murder.
        God bless you and your child!

      • Doolallybirdy

        Wow, I’m so sorry for what you have been through. But you’re clearly a very strong woman and all the more stronger because of your experience.
        I’m the other side, I accidentally nearly murdered my ex because of the mental and physical abuse he put me through. You are right. Everybody has a breaking point. I had been humiliated for years, and this one night I was pushed down the stairs. I thought “if he can do that then he is prepared to kill me”. So I grabbed a knife and ran upstairs towards bathroom. The lights were all off and I could barely see. He grabbed my waist as I was running as he was right behind me and I dropped the knife. There was a scuffle and he made it past me to the top of the stairs. I was fearing for my life at this point and my adrenaline was sky high. He actually walked away into the doorway of a room opposite where I was stood. He called me every name under the sun and then went to come at me. I had enough, I wanted to just die and for him to kill me. I threw the knife towards the stair banister, it bounced and hit him in the leg, 2mm away from his main artery.
        Lucky for him he survived. I endured another 6 years of abuse and have never recovered. I sometimes wonder where I’d be if that 2mm was covered. I’d probably be in jail. I’d probably be suffering from ptsd worse than I do now. I’m just glad that I got away when I did because I do think I would have ended up killing him. I was never ever violent toward him, bar that one time. He knocked me about like a damn punchbag. He belittled me every day. He took me far away from my family. I wasn’t allowed a phone, makeup, clothes, job. Nothing. I had to do a runner when he was preoccupied in a bath. Thank god I did.

    • Tracy

      This woman was a nightmare. Her family was nothing but props to her and they needed to perform on command or she was angry. She spent them into bankruptcy and was well on her way to another one. She belittled her husband and treated him like a child. She would not LET him handle any of the money yet he was the one with perfect credit until he signed his life away to her and she destroyed it by her constant spending. She was not paying their house payments, homeowner fees, or credit cards so where was all the money going besides her and her vacations which were NOT full covered by Thrive – she had a room just for SHOES, nails, hair , the most expensive daycare in the state but she quit her job to stay at home and “never miss anything anymore” right?? I saw the video of their last Christmas and it was gut wrenching. She left poor CeCe upstairs screaming until she could not breathe crying for her daddy and Shannan ignored her so she could film yet ANOTHER video for FB. She was not a good wife or mother. Nobody deserves to be killed but you have to be blind to not see what led to this. She was taking that Thrive garbage while pregnant and giving it to the kids and she wondered why they were moody abd would not sit still? Chris was using double doses of it and never slept. That stuff is as dangerous as street drugs and does cause rage. I could not even list the ways this woman was a total fake if I had all day. I wish he had left instead of doing what he did but she was never going to allow that. She was going to use those kids as weapons as much as she could to keep him trapped and she drained him of all his money so what attorney could he get? She ruined him and he realized it way too late.

      • daytime350

        You are so right!! She was a friggin nightmare in every way possible… His life was doomed from the moment he met her and decided to take her and her monumental baggage on.

        • Rebecca Smouse

          Are you people crazy? So basically, you are all saying because she had a dominant personality she deserved to be strangled to death by the man she loved? Her children deserved to be MURDERED by this poor defenseless man? So she enjoyed posting on facebook, so what! So she spent money, so what! He new who she was when she married him. And she was an amazing mother! How dare you people try and tarnish her memory by defending that murderer. I dont care how much she posted, or what she posted on facebook, that beautiful soul, and those three children of hers did NOT deserve what he did to them. She belittled him? GROW SOME BALLS and be a man and stop it! Not one person who knew this woman had a negative thing to say about her.(except his EVIL mother) They all said she was the most kind, loving, helpful friend you could ever ask for. Noone has a perfect marriage. You either work it out or you walk away. You dont kill them and make excuses on how she hurt my feelings. So, Shanann was a bully that’s why he killed her. What in the hell did those 3 little Angel’s do to him? Dont you DARE make him the victim. He is no man, he is no human. He is pure evil. Look at those two little girls pictures and you tell me he isnt. You read the reports that say she gave birth to Niko AFTER he killed her and tell me he isnt. You all should be ashamed, ashamed to drag a murdered womens name through the mud, to make excuses for an evil man.

          • Shark

            People just love to blame the woman. If it’s the other way round (Jodie Arias for example), people aren’t quite as adamant to find excuses or to blame the victim. It’s really ridiculous. It’s as if males couldn’t do anything wrong in the minds of some people.
            It’s never the murderer himself. If Shannan isn’t to blame, it’s Kessinger. Or even Watts’ mother (who is, indeed, a bit**, but just not guilty). But never poor wee baby Chris.

      • Christine Johnson

        Honestly a few months ago I would’ve argued with you about this. I’ve been following the case for over a year now and Thought Shanann was a perfect mom and wife and Chris was a horrible person. However after everything I’ve read On the case And I’m talking hours and hours of reading about it I have a change of heart. I feel Chris was bullied and belittled. And I’m not saying that Shanann man and the girls Deserve to be killed in no way!!!He should’ve got a divorce. But the women did live her life on social media pretending like she had a perfect family instead of living in the moment with her family..She had a closet for clothes like a movie star her children were in daycare full-time plus they had a babysitter I was under the impression that she was a stay at home mom taking care of the girls full-time and working from home that was not the case..She took them to bankruptcy by buying her clothes and constant spending…And actually saddens me how much she belittled Chris.. I read somewhere that she used to throw these nice parties and all her friends will bring the kids over and Chris would play with them upstairs but there’s no videos of that. Everything she did she made sure that it was on Facebook but you don’t see a lot of picture of him playing with the kids on Facebook. I know this doesn’t sound like any of my business and it’s not just expressing my two cents…But when you live your life on social media that much you got expect some opinions from people. If you want a quiet life you live a quiet life of a social media that simple.There are so many things that could’ve changed the way the outcome became if she didn’t go to North Carolina for weeks, Chris never had an affair, if Nicole would’ve walked away from a married man, I wish there was a better outcome and they just simply File for divorce ..The case Definitely one that I will think about for a long time…

        • dm

          Shannan is a sympathetic person in my eyes because, for example, her financial troubles didn’t just affect Chris but they affected her as well. She made poor choices such as overspending or getting involved in an MLM, but family should be there for one another. Chris only cared about money when it came to himself. Chris had a right to be upset with Shannan’s spending habits, however, his anger should have been on behalf of his family, not only on behalf of himself and his future life with Nichol, he should have been thinking about how to support his wife Shannan and their 3 children. While we can say, yes Shannan made poor financial decisions, it’s the reaction to those decisions that make the case what it is. Chris was only upset for himself and acted only for himself.

      • youaresodumb

        dangerous as street drugs? lmaooo you must be on drugs to actually believe that. a simple google search of the ingredients list proves otherwise dear.

      • Karen Hamway

        I couldn’t agree more!
        Your comment is exactly what I was thinking, but too afraid to say.

      • Christina Murphy

        Yes yes and yes, I thank you so much for stating something I also have said. Shanann belittled him, humiliated him. Stopped him from seeing his family. He should never have murdered them but I can understand why.

        • Mia

          People can understand why he murdered his children?? Really? I mean I can see how a person’s who is being physically abused might act in self defense and kill their spouse. But the Kids?? What did they do to deserve that?

          But OK. So SW was a bitch on wheels. Let’s look over the punishments they gave each other: When Chris did silly things to annoy her SW belittled him, bullied him, posted his mistakes on FB, etc. (not nice at all definitely overkill). But when she did things to hurt him Chris decides to kill his children? Does any of this sound balanced? Why was SW’s punishment for being a bully directed at the children? What on Earth did those little girls do to deserve their Dad to smother them and shove them into Oil Tanks?

          Why does verbal abuse or even child abuse (which was never proved) equal murdering your children? Wasn’t SW the problem? Was counseling not an option? Didn’t SW say she too would get help for her part in things? Wasn’t it Chris’ choice to not go through with counseling? So 2nd choice would be divorce. Was that not an option for Chris? Was it the thought of alimony and child support? OK. So 3rd choice: Disappear and change your name. Leave the country with your mistress. But murdering your Kids??

          –It’s not that I have never lived with a Lunatic. I got divorced and refused alimony because I did not want him in my life anymore. I did not want a check in the mail every month from him. I certainly didn’t kill the bastard (Nor did I fantasize about it). I walked away poor and took care of myself. SW was nothing like my ex. I would imagine it would be quite easy to leave her. But instead he decided to murder his kids. I just don’t understand.

      • Kay

        This is a bit harsh. Sure, she had flaws, but who doesn’t? My God, like 80% of moms are obsessed with using their families as props in perfect photos for social media. They get caught up in it like any person can. That doesn’t make her evil. It makes her human. The fact that she left her kid screaming upstairs didn’t make her a bad mom. Sometimes kids throw tantrums when they don’t get what they want. Sometimes, rushing to your child and showering them with attention every time they start screaming isn’t the best solution. If she were doing that all the time, I can see how that would be abuse, but we don’t know that, so we can’t assume. In terms of her humiliating her husband, I know women who do that. They’re passive aggressive. They don’t know how to property and politely confront their husbands about things that make them upset, so they turn it into a big joke and tease him (sometimes with friends around and sometimes publicly, so their husbands can’t be angry and defensive about it). While this is wrong, it’s a flaw, not a sign that someone is a horrible person. There are a lot of people who were never taught to express and solve frustrations in a healthy way. What she needed was marital counseling, not to be ridiculed by you after her murder. This is something that marital counseling could have solved. If you end up being murdered and someone takes a microscope and looks into every aspect of your personality and life out of context, I bet there would be plenty of people online pointing to your flaws as proof that you were a horrible person. It’s easy to do that with anyone when you only see flaws and it’s taken out of context. As for her financial irresponsibility, the majority of Americans live above their means. That’s a fact. Look at Kiplinger and other financial magazines that share this data. That does not mean the majority of Americans are deserving of your ridicule or her fate. Lastly, it could very possibly be that the Thrive stuff was unhealthy and was causing odd behavior. I don’t know what’s in it, but worth investigating.

      • Lucy

        I cannot possibly agree with you more. Understandably, humans want to think of anyone who has suffered a despicable deed as being a perfect angel who never put a foot wrong and therefore couldn’t be more undeserving of what they’ve endured. I really get this. Nothing could possibly explain nor justify the horrendous end to her life. Yet she was, as we all are, fallible. And it seems blatantly obvious that she was in this awful MLM trap of desperately trying to publicise The Perfect Life, that you could have too, if only you buy my products and join my down line!!! Her husband, children and any material goods she owned were advertised as attainable ( if you just join!!!) with humorous touches of ‘aren’t men useless?! I’m SO relatable to you, so join and you can be just like me!!!’

        Unfortunately, Shanann was guilty of making her immediate family (Chris and her children) feel uncomfortable, resentful, irritated, used, upset, angry and stupid. She was human; she was fallible. No justification for her and her babies’ gruesome end whatsoever. However… I really do understand the soup of negative emotions and reactions that were being continually stirred publically by her and her MLM businesses, plus an added affair with a woman who seemed to ‘get’ and respect Chris without having to broadcast every little movement (sometimes causing humiliation) through Facebook. I actually also believe he more or less stopped lying about the details of the murders once the jig was up.

        My point is that we cannot canonise people just because they suffered a gruesome end. Shanann played her part in creating a situation where something ‘wrong’ was almost bound to happen. The minute we stop showing respect to even the closest of our family members, we’re potentially opening up circumstances where unwanted things might happen. Be it ‘I’ve had enough, I want out’ or in cases of desperation, plus arguable psychological conditions, something much more sinister. We do a huge disservice to label Shanann as ‘perfect angel’ and Chris as ‘evil monster’. People are a mixture of good and bad. Whether they do good or bad deeds. And to label in such terms of polarity closes us off to understanding (and preventing) the CONDITIONS that can make an otherwise ‘normal’ seeming person behave in unexpected, highly undesirable ways. There. I’ve said it.

        • Mia

          Can we canonize Bella and Cece who were murdered for absolutely no reason? Did they do something wrong too? Did they lead CW to kill them as well?

          If Chris was rightfully upset with SW then work it out with her. Yell at her, Scream at her, Cheat on her, Leave her, and if you really must, kill HER because SHE was [allegedly] awful. But don’t kill your children. That is not understandable.

          And of course I do not think he should’ve killed SW but we all know what I mean.

    • P. Mack

      I understand she humiliated him on social media, but that still doesn’t validate what he did to his wife and innocent children!!!

    • angelia

      Yup I not only felt bad for Chris but also those kids, they had to repeat everything she said to the camera even if it was the same thing over and over plus those girls were afraid of everything maybe if she let them sleep in the same room they wouldn’t have so many fears she was really a lot to deal with. I feel the same as his parents do then tell ing his mother about problems in the bedroom ! I’m surprised they were married as long as they were and that she lived as long as she did!

  2. Pauline

    Yes, I know. That’s what Sharon Rocha cried from the stand to Scott Peterson in the penalty phase, why didn’t he consider divorce. But we’re not dealing here with a rational thinking being, by our standards at least. We have the end result, now we have to go back as far as we can to see how he got there. By his standards.

    • Vanessa Carey

      I completely agree. There are two different minds here. The blaming type and the others who sit back and think what lead to this. I am literally studying this case wondering about even the smallest details.

      • Kimmieb0313

        Same here. I’ve known about this case of course, as the entire world has, but I’ve just recently started really becoming super interested and delving deeply into it, studying every detail.

        • angelia

          I didn’t even finish high school and i can tell the person she was, over barring bossyI felt awful to see the poor kids, it was all her way or no way the kids should not of been killed but her i could see it coming!

      • George Pasture

        Vanessa Agree about the two types of minds here. I’m a lot more of what lead to this.

        I recently started delving into this case – I read all the books and other info. I didn’t however go completely by what Chris and his family has said – not that they weren’t telling the truth – they were to an extent – but they were more bias and I wanted to come to my conclusion based on more unbiased accounts.

        That said it’s been said by many who knew them SW was very controlling and dominant. Her friend Jeanna even said it – SW and CW lived with Jeanna for a year when they first moved to CO. Her friend Cristina said SW told her that Chris wanted to hang a picture in the house but he needed her approval first and Chris was mad because he wanted more of a say. Their friend Jeremy said he once picked up Chris to take him to the airport but SW said he couldn’t leave because he hadn’t finished cleaning the basement. SW once posted on FB pics of how Chris didn’t do something right in the kitchen and she posted about it in detail. In one video on FB she was promoting the Thrive bars and CW and the kids were right there and SW said Chris needed to get his own. He responded “ really”? And not in a good way and she laughed when he said it. I do believe he was abused mentally and she belittled him too much and publicly on FB. Turn it around. If a husband wouldn’t let his wife leave the house until she completed her chores it wouldn’t go down well. If a husband didn’t allow his wife to hang a picture without his approval it wouldn’t go well and on and on. If a husband did all this to his wife it would be seen as mental abuse. Then you add in the money problems and I think it’s clear she spent most of the money. Then the huge fiasco between her and his mom that occurred in early July – “” as Shannan called it and although he wasn’t there when it happened Shannan put him squarely in the middle and bashed his parents in text messages. I’m able to see what caused his anger and caused the affair. Some people have said he should have spoken up and defended himself but I don’t think she would have responded well to that. She texted her friend the marriage was “ perfect” up to the point of him being distant. But no marriage is perfect and it’s a mistake to for anyone to think their marriage is. It was perfect for her as she could do what what she wanted, but the anger and resentment was building up in him.

        That all said he still did have the option to leave and he could have broken off the marriage while she was in NC. Easier to do miles away. It still would have been messy but better than triple murder. He’s not the only one who’s been in a bad marriage and most people don’t commit murder. Both people in a marriage should have open communication and be open to what their partner says. None of us are perfect. Again nothing condones triple murder.

  3. Shannon

    I always wondered if he saw her awful posts about him.
    She was not a Nice person.

    • thetinytech2018

      She was nice… When you were doing what she wanted, when she wanted and exactly how she wanted.

      It speaks to the type of person I often see stay in an MLM long term. That part of the case is fascinating to me honestly. They’ve was her seventh, yes, seventh MLM that she had joined and failed at. That’s not her fault, MLMs are designed that way, nobody but the small few who started it and remain at the top make money.

      However the fact that she didn’t learn get lesson after one or two, well, isn’t the definition of crazy doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result? From the bankruptcy and the path they took after (that was the same as what initially led them to bankruptcy) to the multiple MLMs she blew money on but didn’t earn, there is something to be learned there regarding Shanann.

      MLMs have that same cult mentality as well. They all display three fake sentiments and success, wealth and harmonious relationships online, but do once thing they don’t like or dare to leave the MLM, and they’ll tear you down publicly and privately just as fast as they built you up.

      Whether she was looking for instant gratification from that “business”, from friends or from another source, I’m not 100% sure but Inge thing is for certain, she was trying to fill a hole. Not sure what was missing but the fake PDF, to the keeping up with the Jonses mentality, to the mass consumerism that she continued to take part in even after it jeopardized her family’s future, she certainly was trying to fill a void.

      You know what happy, successful people don’t do? Tell you that they’re happy and successful every 5 seconds or when given the opportunity like she did. She was trying to convince herself it seems.

      • daytime350

        You are correct… I had a best friend tell me that we couldn’t be friends anymore if I didn’t sign up under her… I said well “adios“…Now she’s not in it anymore either but so …I don’t need friends like that.

      • Lucy

        Absolutely right. Very well said and explained.

    • Chat

      I think she was a controlling, insecure selfish, greedy, imbecile.
      I couldn’t stand to hear her talk, she said “um” every other f****** word. Chris Watts is that guy that is just so quiet he will not fight back, he will just take it and take it and take it like the kid at school that is being bullied & he finally snapped. Shannon Watts drove him to kill her kids and to kill her. She was way too needy and insecure and aside from staying pregnant all the time no wonder he sought out a different woman. Chris Watts does not belong in a prison cell he belongs in a hospital where he can get psychological help! If I lived with somebody like shannan, I would
      have left that b**** a long time ago. Aside from her being a camera hog, she lived her life on social media which I find totally and utterly disgusting.
      Chris Watts deserves a medal for putting up with her for 8 years.
      I’m sorry she lost her life & especially the two little girls, but I can honestly say, she got what she bargained for.

      • Chit Chat

        Now….type all of that with a real name so we can show the world what a person who condones murder looks like.

        Ah, but I bet you won’t, you tough, keyboard warrior.

        • Kristi Foster-Barei

          What an Awesome reply !!

        • daytime350

          Whatever…

        • yve

          Well said. These people who are victim blaming are preposterously moronic. Witness their grasp of written English. A pregnant young woman and two babies were ruthlessly slaughtered by a psychopath because wanted his new bit on the down low. God damn their tiny brains, the lot of them!

      • Drama in Education

        So this “bitch” drove him to kill her to kill her and her kids. Really? She stayed pregnant all the time?
        She said “um” and she was on social media all the time.
        She was a camera “hog” too, eh? She was a ” controlling, insecure selfish, greedy, imbecile” you say. And she, “honestly… got what she bargained for.”
        This misogynistic view of the situation is why these things happen. You degrade a woman who is dead… strangled by the father of her babies and her unborn child … to an animal.
        She got what she “bargained for?”. He is a white,good looking, able bodied, educated, cisgender. straight male, leading a life of privilege and he was humiliating her as he continued and affair with another woman, he lied to ( she is just another woman… no big deal, just another commodity) . It is deep seeded belief that she had no value and was disposable as society has taught him that women are a commodity.
        It seems you too, believe that of women, in your vile description of a woman you don’t know who was murdered at the hands in the bed where they were most intimate. What about the little girls? They bargained for this? What did they do to lead their dad to kill them? Were they bitches and camera hogs who were. controlling, insecure selfish, greedy, imbeciles?

        • Kerri

          It’s a why, not an excuse. She was a bully and she created their financial woes. He should have left her and sought counseling, but her being bully is what makes the outcome not a surprise.

        • pronkingalpaca65

          WTF? He was leading a life of privilege living with that woman?! The affair should have come as absolutely no surprise to Shannan.

          She pushed him to the brink, humiliated him at every opportunity, spent every dime he made and more, and medically abused their innocent children.

          She was not a nice person; the fact that she is dead doesn’t change that.

        • Stfu

          At „Drama in Education“: I absolutely don‘t agree with what the original poster commented, but holy moly is race, gender and sexuality the only thing you can see and think about? Stop projecting your identity politics on others, it‘s disgusting how you can use this for your agenda.

      • P. Mack

        WOW!…what a horrible thing to say about the deceased. You do know that there’s a thing called “Divorce” if someone isn’t happy in their marriage!…Plan and simple, he could’ve asked for a divorce!

        • CJ

          He did ask for a divorce and Shannan fought him on it. She was just only starting to realize how the way she mistreated him was affecting his decision. And at the same time, still telling her friends that he should be so lucky and hardly admitting her faults. Like really??? Baby steps I guess?

          • George Pasture

            Kerri Correct. It was more specifically the bullying the dominance and belittling (and sometimes publicly on FB) and possibly not giving him true attention that lead to it. Not that these reasons were good enough for murder – they were not. But Obviously Chris is evil given what he did and that evil came out as a result/ partly as a result of this. He was away from her for 5 weeks while she was in NC – the perfect opportunity for him to tell her it was over etc. – easier to do given the distance

    • Kelly

      You know he did, in his confession he did mention he was incredibly resentful and had so much pent up anger for her.

    • Faithangeli

      Unless you actually know their dynamics, and her in particular, you have no right to spout your ridiculous judgment. The bottom line is, women love to make a home. It is obvious that she LOVED her children. She was nesting while doing with her FB posts. Their house was flawless. I’m sure her she took care of everything with the children and making everything beautiful for them as well as her husband. This man had multiple affairs. Why get married if that’s what you want to do? Sickening justification like yours makes the victim who is dead and not able to respond a shrew. That is what is wrong with your skewed ideation. For shame that you can mentally go there.

      • Bobby

        Exactly!!! Thankyou 🙏🏽 Finally someone has sense on this thread.

      • Tiffany

        You realize you’re also making judgments without knowing her or their dynamic. Just because your judgments are nice ones doesn’t make them any less speculation than anyone else’s. This entire post is honestly incredibly ignorant.
        “Women love to make house” is obviously an untrue statement as all women are different. We don’t come with an “omg I love to cook and clean” gene.
        She probably did love her children very much. I can’t dispute that in any way. But we can’t possibly know how good a parent or wife she was unless we were there with her behind closed doors.
        A well-kept house is not an indication of the nurture in her home. It could have been kept that way just for her videos. It could actually be used to prove the point that she was a surface level person who lived a fake life for the sake of appearing perfect.

        My personal opinion is that he had several weeks while she was gone to pack his things and leave. He could’ve even sold her unnecessary things to buy a plane ticket and go anywhere he wanted. There’s no world in which murder should’ve been his answer. She wasn’t THERE for two months, so the idea that he snapped and was pushed to do it is silly… regardless of our opinions of her.

        • ColonelSanders

          This is the best comment about this entire case. I feel like it’s wrapped up for me now and I can finally stop thinking about it 🥴. THIS CASE WHACK. Mans should have calmed down and absolutely taken the time while she was on vacation to move his stuff out and better himself in therapy or something. A good lesson about giving yourself time to breathe after crippling self-realizations/anger/breakthroughs/getting called out about stuff in your life that makes you weak or bullied etc. Any time a big blow to your personality takes a huge hit after years of not realizing it, take time to think it through and calm down you will no doubt change if you work on yourself and make behavioral changes to defend yourself better, work on the way you handle situations yada yada. I think he was pushed to do this by Shannon but don’t think it is at all in any way anyone else’s fault but his own. Hopefully, at the very least, this case and Netflix documentary can open people’s eyes who are in a similar circumstance being bullied or pushed around by a significant other and make them go about their situation differently and maybe even a happier and better place than they have ever been before by sorting themselves out and learning to stand up for themselves and the ones they love more than murdering them….

      • Lisa

        You are telling someone not to
        Judge someone they don’t know while you do the same. Granted you judge her positively but you’re doing the same thing. I think CW should be buried under the prison he has been sent too but if I’m going to be honest (not immediately make a deceased person WONDERFUL cuz his forbid we speak I’ll of the dead) the more videos I see if SW the more I can’t stand her and feel sooty for those poor girls. If she hadn’t been killed by CW I would be 100% on his side. She was clearly portraying herself as a fake, a bully and we now know that’s all true. She’s so #Blessed on SM but it was all a ruse. Terrible marriage, finances in the gutter and a mom who was there when the video was on. Doesn’t mean she didn’t love them, I’m assuming she did but she doesn’t come across (from her own words, posts etc) as a great mom. She sure tried to make everyone think she was tho. Great moms don’t need to get patted on the back from strangers about how good they are. They just enjoy the ride with their family and get all the reassurance from daily living with them.
        If you need social media to praise you about your life choices you should immediately cancel all your accounts and go to therapy. Like yesterday.

    • Anita Miller

      Thats what i thought while watching the documentary when she said…i have more patients with children than adults. And it looked like she was bossing him around like he was a child.

      • Anita Miller

        Patience…rather.

  4. shauna snider

    No she was not. that’s why he fucked the shit out of nicol kessenger and mr. he has no game was, according to nicol, the best sex she had ever had in her entire life! Shannan does not seem like the type of woman who will go down on her man or allow him to enter her back door, and nicol was everything she was not, in his eyes. his sexual inexperience likely was a factor in him thinking he was so in love with nicol. Sex with shannan had to have been a total snoozefest. she emasculated him too much and was lame in the sack and he needed someone to make him feel like a man. shannan wore the pants in the relationship, she was extremely annoying and not only did she embarrass him in her posts, she also made him participate in a bunch of her dumb thrive vidoes, further humiliating him by making him dance to footloose, apply feminine products to his face mask and demonstrate how he uses it in his normal skin care routine, made him buy a santa costume and dress up like santa claus for her little wannabe reality show that only she was the star of. I think she was narcissistic. all of her videos she stares at herself as she is dismissive and bitchy to her husband and kids. its bizarre and im sure chris felt bullied into participating. if he did not, all hell would break lose with this woman. had he taken it to trial, I strongly believe he could’ve gotten a way lighter sentence because many people who saw shannans facebook live videos were questioning her mental health and stability. but unfortunately for him, he was not familiar with how police work a suspect, and he was pressured into admitting guilt, which was a bad move. had he just gotten a lawyer the moment shit started to get real, im convinced hed probably have been a free man once again, possibly in only a few years time. Shannan was that big of a bitch to him that people feel sympathy for him even though he murdered her and his own children. its fucked up but its just how a lot of people feel about the situation.

    • Lisa

      There are seriously no words that I have for a monster like you. Yes I use the term monster cause no real decent human being would ever post such ludicrous drivel. Wow I’m going to guess that your bed playmate is rosie palmer and her five friends.

      • thetinytech2018

        Lisa, this isn’t a place where we pretend Shanann was an angel and ignore the fact that she was a human being like everyone else. Nobody is saying any of them deserved what happened because nobody here believes that, we’re all in agreement that he did a heinous thing. Crime however, doesn’t exist in a vacuum and neither did this family. It’s easy to say “he snapped” or “he was crazy” but this isn’t a lifetime movie and there’s a reason why someone who had no history of violence one day goes and does something like this. Nobody knows his motive and perils are still uncovering things as much of what was reported, like her making any money from that pyramid scheme, has been verified as false.

        If you don’t like the discussion here that is certainly your prerogative, but if you’re not going to do any reading or any research please go back to your people magazine articles where they cover fluff and nothing else.

    • Kat5566

      Sympathy? For Christopher Watts?!? Because his wife was bitchy and bossy sometimes??? Awwww. Poor little Chris. With his mean Ole wife constantly belittling him. Yep. She sure did post a lot of videos about him on Facebook. And as for any derogatory Facebook videos she posted about Chris, they looked more to be teasing him then demeaning him. I mean come on. The cookie sheet / parchment paper video? LOL. That was funny. She didn’t post that to demean her husband, she probably thought it was funny herself. And you know what? I don’t give a flying fuck if she was the biggest bitch on the planet. He should have left her. Not killed her. And even IF, —-and it’s a big if— anyone could feel sympathy or even remotely understand why he killed shanann….. then please, tell me why did the little girls have to die too? ???Huh???? Why?!? There was a
      absolutely NO reason those sweet innocent little girls needed to die, other than their despicable Pig of a father wanting to start a new life with a SKANK named Nicole, that he’s only known for six weeks. And yes. This bitch is a skank. She knew damn well he was married. She even admitted to that. I don’t care that he told her he was “separating from shanann”….. The skank had the audacity to go in to Shannan’s house while she and and the girls were in North Carolina.. and I’m pretty sure unless she’s a complete and total moron, she could tell they were nowhere near separating.. so, Nicole Kessinger is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. And she
      had designs on Chris at least a year before the two started their raunchy ass fucking affair. She Googled Shannan Watts’ name back in September of 2017. So she is a piece of shit too. Nobody could ever have sympathy on either one of these disgusting selfish people. Ever.

      • Fairhangeli

        I agree with most of everything you said, however I am tired of women putting down other women who fall for, in this case, a narcissistic person who cheated on his wife. Women need to be more supportive of other women, like the neighbor. That was a true friend.

        This woman involved was young, and emotions/hormones fly high when you meet someone new and become intimate. Men are the skank‘s when cheating on their wives. The problem with society and women in general, as well as the media will annihilate women first even when it is the man married who should bear the repercussions .

      • Ashley

        Thank God someone said it!

    • Chat

      I agree 100%, I’m glad I don’t feel that way alone. As soon as I heard her talk I wanted to puke, and the videos with poor Chris in the background jumping through fire hoops and doing a dog and pony show at her command was absolutely sickening… she was a bossy, needy, codependent, whiny POS but she did not deserve to be murdered nor did those two little girls. She drove him to it with her constant nagging.

      • DM

        So the fact that she was pregnant had nothing to do with it? I don’t believe he snapped since this was premeditated and his motive was to be rid of his entire family so he could start anew with Nicole. Don’t ignore the facts. Spouses fall out of love all the time and leaving would have been the best option. He didn’t want his children to visit him and Nichol on the weekends, he didn’t want to be a father anymore. Don’t villify the victim of this heinous crime when her worst fault was that she was his wife who was carrying his baby that would have been a hindrence to his new relationship.

    • Tina

      Shauna- you hit It on the head, as bad as people might think your post is- it’s correct. NK made him feel like a man, for once in his life he was able to be himself. Shannan would have never went to the great sand dunes, camping, race track. Unless it was about her – she wanted nothing to do with it. Just because a man stays silent doesn’t mean he isn’t thinking about how much he’s being abused and manipulated. Countless videos of her absolutely humiliating him, pie in the face , skin care routine, pajamas, Santa- girls doing his hair – he was so incredibly unhappy and uncomfortable but she didn’t give a flying fuck about him. It was for views. She wanted people to envy her husband. The “good dad “ persona the wow he really steps it up and helps. But her friends who supported her behavior are just as bad.
      I think Chris wanted out a long time ago.. she became a 2nd full time job for him. Cooking, cleaning after working all day and she pretended to have a real job that empty their bank accounts. He snapped. I don’t understand and never will the children being murdered too, they must have seen him do it and he didn’t want them to say anything. But Shan’Ann was a narcissist, a selfish woman.

      • DM

        What I don’t understand is why Shannan is at fault for doing normal things like skincare routine and wanting her husband to dress up like Santa? Why is that her fault when those are normal things that millions of people do? Chris is at fault because he chose a married life and then when he realized he didn’t like that lifestyle, he decided the best option was to kill them all so he could move on? There is something wrong with his brain. If Shannan had married someone else and ask him to participate in her videos, he either would have been happy to or not happy to and just left.

        • George Pasture

          DM Him dressing up as Santa was not negative but her belittling him on FB, being bossy controlling, bad money habits and not allowing him to hang a picture in his house were the problems. He did choose marriage but I believe she abused him mentally. If a man did these things to his wife it would possibly be considered abuse and not funny. That said he’s evil as he knew where the front door was but chose the horrific path instead.

  5. Shannon

    Well Shauna.
    Thank you.

  6. critter

    “If Shan’ann could do this on a public platform, what did she say and do when she was really angry with her husband?”

    I can’t help wondering if the reason he felt he had to kill his kids as well was something she said in anger when he asked for a separation. “You can’t do this to the girls, they’ll grow up hating you, I’ll tell them you’re worthless, you’re ruining their lives.” Chris does seem to have at least some fondness for his girls in some of the earlier videos, did Shan’ann know that and wield the kids as weapons? If that’s the case, then Chris might have justified killing the girls in his mind as a combination of mercy killing and de-fanging his wife. (In fact, the mercy killing aspect has two sides. One, shielding them from being kids of divorced parents; and two, shielding them from Shan’ann, someone he hated and thought was cruel, getting primary custody.)

    (I’m going here with the idea that he killed the girls first, while Shan’ann was away. Did we ever get an answer to who died when?)

    Then, when she got back from the trip, he would already feel smug, already feel like he’d pulled one over on her while she was away and she didn’t even know about it. The power dynamic had shifted at that point, and Chris felt empowered to get back at Shan’ann.

    Of course, this theory doesn’t really take his mistress into account, but if he already told NK that he had two kids and asked her for help finding a place for him and his girls, maybe he *had* been willing at first to just leave, get a divorce and let NK be stepmom.

  7. Lisa

    First let me start off by saying this is the most despicable article that I have read in a long time. Do you have any idea that what you are doing right now by writing and posting this article is what is called victim blaming? Maybe you should check that out there are plenty of resources online that can tell you all about victim blaming. Once you’ve read them it should then become apparent to you that you are one of those despicable human beings that victim blames. So what you are saying is that because she put up some posts, that were meant in jest not to belittle, that that’s the reason she and her 2 little girls (remember ages 2 and 4) and a fetus were brutally murdered then discarded like trash? What you have here is a case of a narcissistic psychopath (Chris Watts) but his actions are all justified because of some posts put up on facebook, again in jest. I am going to guess that you are a man. Only a man who hates women would but something this horrendous up on the internet. I think you really should seek some help for your issues, and this isn’t me insulting you, I really think you need to obtain some professional help. I also think that you should never be allowed to ever write on this website or any other website as a matter of fact. Seriously this is absolutely appalling.

    • nickvdl

      Hi Lisa

      You seem to be throwing an awful lot of mud for someone who is against victim blaming.

      I don’t expect you to think about it any differently, now while the information and emotion is still raw. Perhaps in a few months or years you’ll be able to see that things cannot be so simplistic where any commentary that doesn’t fit into Shan’ann = innocent, good, perfect and Chris Watts = evil, bad, monster, is evil and victim blaming.

      This word seems to be your attempt to suppress and punish and victimise dissenters.

      In your world, someone is either all good, or all bad. In the real world, good people aren’t perfect and do bad stuff, and bad people are also sometimes good, kind, even devoted and generous for a spell.

      Many folks like you don’t understand that in the process of thoroughly examining a true crime case, all aspects are examined. A cursory glance through the subject matter of this blog, which entails hundreds of posts, raises questions against virtually everyone – witnesses, mistresses, cops, family members, dogs. So is there victim blaming against everyone – witnesses, mistresses, cops, family members, dogs? Or are we trying to think critically and analytically about every possible aspect?

      And so, yes, in the process, we also try to understand what was going on in the monster’s mind. I get you don’t want to have that conversation or think about it, but some people do. It’s how we try to understand why. Why doesn’t mean we are saying it’s a reasonable reason, or it’s justified. The motive is why the criminal did what we did. Do you see the distinction?

      In a court of law when the prosecutor gives the motive, he’s not saying: “So, your honor, I understand why the murderer murdered, and I’d have done the same if I was him.” He’s saying – this was the criminal’s mindset and motive, and he should be punished for it.

      In other words, any discussion on motive doesn’t automatically qualify the discussion as victim blaming, much as you would like it to.

      I wrote this post especially to deal with the sort of accusations you are making:

      https://crimerocket.com/2018/12/10/two-pollyannas-is-about-victim-blaming/

      • Lucy

        Yes, yes, yes, yes and also yes.. Oh, and I forgot; YES!! I cannot abide this simplistic analysis that a victim is holier than thou and the perpetrator is an evil monster. We ALL have good and bad in us and sometimes circumstances lead to the unimaginable because we are all fallible. I understand that psychological or psychiatric conditions exist, which will always ‘skew’ what most of us perceive as ‘normal’ but we have to look and analyse open-mindedly in order to understand and potentially predict (and prevent!!) the ingredients of a disastrous result. I believe I am a ‘good’ person but I also understand that a certain set of circumstances might be enough to make me behave ‘badly’. I’m sure that most of us would never be driven to murder but until I’m on my deathbed, how could I unequivocally promise that I could never do anything really morally bad?! In desperate circumstances, where people cannot fathom another way, they can act in circumstances we must count ourselves lucky enough to be beyond our comprehension. In centuries past, people murdered and maimed as part of everyday life and survival! Our is not to reason why, ours is but to do or die.

      • DM

        I believe that human beings are complex individuals and that’s why I don’t like the victim-blaming of Shannan. You seem to think that all housewives are supposed to be these perfect women who act as servants to their husbands and when they dare go off on their own and are dominant or make their own life choices that they are not worthy victims when something horrible happens to them. Because I realize that human beings are infallable, it makes it easier to not victim-blame. But since you expect that all victims need to be perfect innocent saints, it makes you mad when Shannan isn’t a perfect innocent saint so you blame her for Chris’ choice to be rid of his family.

        Maybe the fact that she was his wife and carrying a child he no longer wanted was the motive for the killing? We can say that she wasn’t perfect while analyzing the facts that her personality and social media usage might not have been the actual motive and it is simplistic and naive to think that she “drove him to it.”

    • Leslie W Wiebe

      Right!! And belittling? Not quite. She’s just horsing around because it really is very funny! I actually think its endearing. My husband would leave a response LIKE “LOL. Like you’re perfect?”. Please. Someone always has to insert drama.

      • nylady

        I feel sorry your husband

        • Shannon

          How old are you?

        • Not funny or endearing to belittle your spouse

          I also feel sorry for the husband because of the double-standard.
          It would be *fair* to reciprocate belittling your spouse — but most people would agree it is toxic.
          Why keep him if you are going to belittle him?
          Set him free.

      • nylady

        ..for your husband.

      • George Pasture

        Leslie Does your husband belittle you on Facebook and leave seven negative emoji’s? Does he prevent you from leaving the house until you are done with your chores? Does he prevent you from hanging a picture in your own home without his approval? Does he dominate and control you? Maybe if he did all this to you it might not be funny. No excuse for murder though

    • Kat5566

      Thank you Lisa! I agree 100%. And I just posted almost word-for-word what you just said a minute ago before I read your post.

    • Crat

      Opinions are like assholes everybody has one.
      There are also two sides to every story and from what everyone has seen from shannan she was bossy and controlling and belittled him to the point where he snapped. She was nothing but a bully.

    • Jolie Paradis

      Realistically, there are times when the victim deserves a portion of the blame, Lisa. This is one of those times.

      • DM

        But he killed her because he wanted to be with Nichol… he wanted to end her pregnancy. The family entitity got in the way of his life with Nichol… why are we chalking up his crimes to “his wife was mean to him?” If he wanted to leave, he could leave. There is more to the motive of killing though. Don’t be naive. Look at the Scott Peterson case. It’s eerily similar.

        • Mia

          I am shocked that all these women are blaming SW for chris’ choice to commit murder. Do they also blame some rape victims because of how they dress or where they were? And I still don’t get how they could understand why he killed his children. What did they have to do with Shanann bullying him? It makes no sense.

    • pronkingalpaca65

      People are entitled to their opinions as long as they agree with yours? Nick has been more than fair in his coverage of this case.

    • Yusuki

      Have you ever heard of the YouTube parents who “played pranks” on their children? They would falsely accuse their kids of doing bad things and say they are in big trouble, they’d scare them, give them fake bad news, all “in jest”, “because it’s funny”.
      It led to their children being taken away for abuse. It caused mental harm and distrust and rage in the children.
      Teasing and picking at someone isn’t always funny, even if you’re intentions are totally pure. It can eat away at someone’s confidence and doing it over and over can cause permanent issues.
      I don’t mean this is a “Chris is a victim” kind of way– because he definitely should’ve just left. I’m just saying “she meant to be funny” isn’t a good excuse to constantly belittle your partner, unless it’s VERY well established that they like to joke around like that.

      • Janie

        I agree! In fact let’s just take Chris Watts out of the picture for a moment , since everyone seems to think that those who point out that he was belittled by his wife are “victim blamers.” Can those people please explain the behavior of a mother who continually makes her children say hi to her FB viewers, before their needs are met? For example the fact that they were hungry and she wouldn’t share her new Thrive bars because she had to try them first. Yet the children are scolded to perform and act happy and obsessively say hi. How about the videos where they are making Christmas cookies, yet aren’t allowed to participate at all. Or the Santa Claus video where the girls are terrified and then belittled by their own mother for not going along with her narcissistic video only to be subjected to name calling as she did when she called Bella The Grinch. Not sure about anyone else, but I have no memories of my children sobbing on Christmas. It sickens me to see the way she tortures her children and then laughs and makes fun of them. So again with Chris Watts and her murder out of this scenario, does anyone want rto defend that behavior? Did any of her family and friends ever pull her aside and tell her that this type of behavior may be harmful to her children, let alone her marriage? My guess is no, because you were all under this control freak’s spell of no one is going to tell me what to do. Look what happened to Cindy Watts when she disagreed with her. If you really cared about that family, someone should have called CPS and reported her!

        • Gwyn Blackwood

          Janie, there’s some information here that is quite interesting. I encourage you to go read this persons blog also. Gives a great compare and contrast since none of us really know what happened that fateful day.
          https://truecrimecaseanalysis.home.blog/2019/07/26/inception-to-conclusion-the-rise-and-fall-of-the-watts-family-2-of-2/

        • Opendoor

          It amazes me too. So many inappropriate things, and people just rave about what a great mom she is. I guess I have different ideas on that, too.
          I saw that video, too, showing what happened to the kids. What amazes me is…Chris didn’t try to stop it. Camera or no camera, who would allow their kids to be treated like that? Then all of the medical stuff with the “oh boy!” online comments. Why no one tried to intervene for the kids’ sakes.

      • Opendoor

        It’s like the “I’m just kidding” kind of thing…like it’s a free pass to do anything.

      • DM

        Of course, don’t hurt your partner – but like she wasn’t being emotionally manipulative in those two posts. She was poking fun of the fact that he couldn’t follow her instructions. If I saw that on my social media, I wouldn’t be like “oh haha Chris is so stupid, he is horrible”. I would just think “oh, haha silly Chris” and like move on. Most people just liked the posts and moved on. They didn’t attack Chris afterwards and think badly of him. And if Chris felt offended by all that, he should have seriously said something. Shannan wasn’t perfect but we can’t lose sight of the actual motive for murder and the fact that Chris discarded his children like trash. There is more to the story than the simple narrative of “She drove him to do it.” I don’t want to be naive and we need to realize that Chris was a covert narcissit and sociopath who didn’t understand empathy and love and had no idea how to human.

  8. Jessica

    What really freaked me out, well it all has, but especially the fact that he dumped his little girls dead bodies in the oil drums. Not only that but the openings were 8 inches. So he must have broken their little bones to get them in 😢😢😢 I can see why he maybe could have felt sick of his wife, maybe even hatred. So get a divorce! And killing your own flesh and blood? Wow

  9. nylady

    I think the man was verbally and emotionally abused over the course of the relationship, what was it 6 or 8 years? Clearly, he wasn’t the man she wanted him to be and she wasn’t going to stop until he was.
    Continued, relentless abuse, criticism, belittling and shaming wears on a person and creates nothing but resentment. She had no respect for him. His mother said she was critical of him in front of his family. I don’t think he intended to kill her that night, there were so many holes in his story he was arrested two days later. The girls must have still been alive. I think she went ballistic when she came home and he said he wanted to separate. It’s clear this man would never have had another happy moment in his life if he her. From that point on, he lost whatever ability he had to think rationally. I know why he did what he did to her, but there’s no way you can do such a thing to your own two little children and be in your right mind. It’s not possible.

    • Leslie W Wiebe

      Oh, please. I think CW had the intellectual and maturity level of a 12 year old. She probably had to wash his backside because of his helplessness. He was her 3rd child.He probably left a trail of dirty clothes wherever he went in that house and that shit gets old. Real fast. I don’t care how much you love the man, if you don’t pull your weight and think your wife is your mommy while she’s raising two toddlers and running a household, you NEED to be bossed around. This was guy was a weenie.

      • Shannon

        Wow.
        You couldn’t be more wrong about Chris or the case. Maybe do some Real Research before you comment.

  10. Linda Tobin

    All I can say is wow, I can’t believe the naming and shaming of this poor woman.There is no doubt there may have been times when Shanann took the mickey out of this monster, nevertheless there were numerous examples of her speaking of her love and appreciation for him as a husband and father.
    Why quote the mother in law who seemed quite happy to give her own grandchild nuts when this could have had a huge detrimental on the child.She also was happy to criticise Shanann frequently instead of supporting her son’s choice of partner.
    Shanann worked hard for her family, she was obviously a fantastic mum and loved her girls.She used social media as part of her business,I listened to her distressed former high school teacher ( who also became her friend ) describe her as an amazing inspirational woman.Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but I have been so upset about the obliteration of Watts entire family, I cannot get this case out of my mind, unlike Chris Watts who has shown not one once of remorse for what he has done to his beautiful family.
    I for one take absolute delight in knowing that he will spend the rest of his days looking over his shoulder, feeling fear just like his little girls and wife did on the day he snuffed out their lives.

    • Lisa

      Couldn’t agree more that CW should live in torment for the rest of his miserable life. However how anyone can watch SW in those videos and not cringe over them honestly befuddles me.
      Of course her family and friends are not going to point out her flaws after her horrific murder. Humans generally tend to remember only the good but with all the information that’s come out along with those fake #Blessed SM posts clearly all was not well in the Watts’ household. SW is not someone I’d like in my life. Or my children’s. She comes across as fake, mean, tyrannical and more concerned with strangers view of her than what her kids needed of her.
      Doesn’t mean I or anyone who feels that way thinks she deserved to die.

      • DM

        It also doesn’t mean that’s why Chris killed her.

  11. Mustang Sally

    Nick, if I may ask…are you inclined to be naturally more introverted or extroverted?

    • Mustang Sally

      Lol then delete the question too. 😜

  12. nylady

    Linda,
    With all due respect, no one is shaming the victim. There are no circumstances that could justify what he did to her and their unborn child. But what seems to have happened is she’s been made out to be a saint because of that, and I don’t think that’s the case. She knew he wanted to leave, she just would not let him. She had him cornered and cutoff from his family. They were up to their eyeballs in debt, again. He had no outlet, nowhere and no one to turn to. It’s a tragedy beyond words. And I have no idea how he manages to go on, he has to relive that night over and over in his head and in his dreams. That in itself is a living hell. God have Mercy on his soul. The only small consolation, if you could call it that, is that Shan’ann will rest in eternity with her children.

    • godisntreal

      heaven isn’t real, you believe in a bronze age fairy tale. they are rotting in the ground, dead. there is no life after death buddy.

  13. Twodogs

    I too, am appalled, especially the vivid description of his girls being stuffed into the pipes. But, I understand this importance of this thread. Chris, shown on the neighbors camera, reminded me of a person in a state of shock, mixed with the excitement of a new girlfriend, but in denial of doing anything wrong. People do not feel and show emotion or pain in certain degrees of shock. Some people do not immediately feel regret, during that confusing, idiotic state of lust, that is so often confused with love. But, even in the idiotic state, the majority of spouses simply move out, file for divorce or just walk away from their family altogether to be with the other person. It’s not like chris and his children were in a brutal, burning bed situation. I regretted watching the videos, because it’s so difficult to get the image of what he did out of my head. But, we only learn truths and receive answers when we are able to leave judgement behind. Sometimes we even learn the necessity for compassion in all circumstances. For instance, a person described as gentle and patient, murdered his family in a cruel, crude and IDIOTIC manner. By IDIOTIC, I mean the way Chris continued to talk about his girlfriends idea of selling the house, and moving to an apartment, as if he didn’t do anything wrong. It reminds me of a person who found two dogs traveling together. Both dogs loved and protected each other. They were both sweet dogs. Both dogs loved people and other dogs but one of the dogs, always did what he was told, and was seemingly calmer and more patient than the other. The seemingly calmer and more patient dog, would get so excited when his owner came home, his entire body wiggled and synchronized with his tail. One day, unexpectedly, this incredibly patient sweet dog, viciously attacked and killed the dog he had traveled with, loved and protected. Afterwards the dog turns to greet his owner, all happy and wagging his tail, like he didn’t do anything wrong. So the dogs owner is horrified and takes the dog to the vet to put the dog down. The vet tells the dogs owner, all the known reasons a gentle dog suddenly turns violent. Sometimes it’s jealousy or fear and sometimes the dog has a brain tumor. The owner opts to having the vet scan the dogs brain. The scan shows that the dog does have a brain tumor….. suddenly, everyone stops judging the dog that killed because…..it is, what it is.

  14. Leslie W Wiebe

    BFD. What was the context? Was she making fun of Chris or was she making fun of husbands? Whichever, I find it to be totally innocuous spousal banter. If this kind of stuff wore down Chris watts’ psyche, then she really got the short end of the stick marrying such an insecure little mouse.

    • nickvdl

      So if I understand your argument, their marriage was perfect, and Shan’ann never did anything to upset her husband, and he never felt humiliated.
      He had absolutely no reason to do what he did. His motive for murder had nothing to do with what was happening situationally, contextually, or who anyone was. He sort of committed murder at random. He is all evil and she is all good. So he committed murder basically just because? Have I summed it up correctly?

      • DM

        She was pregnant with his unborn child that he reallly did not want. He wanted to start a new life. He did not like Shannan anymore, no, but mostly because the wife and children were a hindrence to his new life with Nichol. He chose to kill them for those reasons.

        Marriages break down, yes, and both parties are responsible for not communicating with each other and caring for each other. Those are reasons for divorce.

        But think about it. He didn’t just leave (which would have gotten him away from Shannan) but he killed because he didn’t want to raise his babies, see them grow up, have weekend visits with them, and pay child support. He was selfish and wanted money only for himself not to raise his beautiful babies.

    • Rene

      Amen!!! If my husband does something silly I tease him too. Very much like this. I can only hope he doesnt murder me & my kids bcz of it then have a bunch of people say I had it coming for teasing him. How dare I!! I see a loving wife who was a great mom who worked hard despite her illnesses & kept a very clean organized home her family could be proud of. I see a loyal caring mom. If its some teasing on FB or cheating on Tinder behind your spouses back? Ill take a teasing!!

      • Cecelia Taylor

        I totally agree w you. I can’t believe the criticism Shannan is getting. She seemed like an awesome wife and mother and all people say is how controlling she was. Unbelievable!

        • Opendoor

          Have you watched all of the videos with the kids?

  15. Shannon

    I think some people here are newbies and don’t understand the reasons why these or any murders happen. Maybe read up on other murders to see how other people die.

    • weinsp

      I agree.

      • Opendoor

        I agree, too, but they should make sure they know what’s going on. Believing the narrative of the Facebook videos of a perfect life is really naive. I felt very uncomfortable with how she treated the kids…on the camera…imagine when there was no filming.

    • DM

      Yes I agree. Look into Scott Peterson. What did Laci do? She dare carry his child to term than he didn’t want. Chris and Scott are cut from the same cloth. Selfish sociopaths who thought killing and going to prison for life was a better option than seeing their babies be born.

  16. Lee

    There is a difference between looking at the dynamics of a marriage to better figure out the motive and saying things like “she drove him to it.” Some people, in the comments, are outright saying that she got what she deserved. That is the problem with this. If your title was something like “dynamics in the Watts Marriage May Have Contributed to the Murders,” people would be much more likely to have an open mind about your post.

    Not one of us is perfect. Shan’an used her FB as marketing for her business, so it was, of course, a little staged, like many of ours are. I don’t see it as humiliating. It depends entirely on the couple. Some banter like that in public; some don’t. If he was offended, felt bullied or humiliated, there were a million other recourses rather than murder. At one point that night, he made a choice. It’s likely he made that choice at least the night before, as police documents show his attempt to build an alibi. He chose to murder his entire family, including his tiny girls, one who fought back so hard she bit through her tongue.

    And what about the way he tried to blame her for killing their children? That’s almost worse than the actual crime! How does that fit into your analysis of him as a bullied, cowed man?
    Again, I am all about analysis, but this goes beyond that to put at least some of the blame for her own murder (and the murder of her children) on Shan’an. And that is indefensible.

  17. Sophia

    There is no perfect human being, but murder is murder. It doesn’t matter what Shan-Ann did on Facebook or the desperate threats made during a heated argument.

    He cheated and chose not to move on. He killed his wife, unborn child and two daughters. Anyone who chooses to supress hatred or keep it contained, only to have it explode in such an awful and evil manner had to have psychological issues to begin with. He had a retarded and skewed understanding about reality. He did not own his family and to think he had the rights to end their lives, is truly repulsive.

    I am tired of people making excuses that he was bullied and he reacted. He was an extremely flawed human being and lacked the undying love many parents have for their children. He lacked that feeling of warmth and beauty when looking upon his own flesh and blood. He smothered his daughter while the other sat watching. He shoved their bodies into tiny openings. He did not care for any of them. He only cared about his life and his future alone.

    We have to stop trying to make excuses for people and their shortcomings. We have to stop blaming others for someone’s heinous crimes. Instead, we should focus on early detection of psychological issues. We cant live in a bubble and continue to embrace ignorance and stupidity.

    Although, Chris Watts was a quiet person, he was very much self involved and had a very weird way of looking at life. He tried every way possible to justify murder in his mind. He is a very sick coward.

    • Faithangeli

      Shauna- If you are actually a woman, you need to be put on the radar for psychopathy.
      You are either a sick older man with a female name or one of those women that are so messed up in the head that you would murder and hurt another woman for a man. Either way you are sick.

  18. metalgirl1981

    I am amazed how many people are willing to turn a dead person particularly a murdered person into a saint. She was not. She really wasn’t a very nice person on Facebook. I did feel that she humiliated him at every turn. Sometimes it was more subtle and others blatant. Of course that doesn’t give him the right to murder her or those babies. But we have to look at these cases honestly and objectively, hopefully another to save a life. Social media does have a lot to do with this. It’s hard enough to be humiliated in front of family and friends, but when you’re humiliated in front of the entire world it can do things to a person that may not be too stable. Clearly Chris Watts was not capable of standing up for himself. But it’s unreasonable for us to think this man who had no history of domestic violence or criminal history of any kind out of nowhere murdered his family without psychopathy within the marriage.

  19. Cecelia Taylor

    Why is Chris Watts receiving pity from some of you? That’s what it sounds like. He is a murderer, liar and cheater. And yet, y’all are talking about how Shannan humiliated HIM? Really? Unbelievable. I say Shannan was way too good for that creep. She seemed like the kind of wife any man would want. Except those who’d rather have a nasty ho. I hope he gets killed in prison.

    • Ralph Oscar

      Sounds like you have nothing to offer the investigation here.

      So why are you here? Do you just randomly cruise around the internet trying to find places to criticize and scold people? How many scoldings a day do you need to issue in order to feel satisfied?

      If you do not wish to participate in and contribute to the ongoing investigative efforts here – and you obviously don’t – then why are you here?

      I’ll bet you’re a lot of fun to live around. Do you walk in on your neighbors when they’re sitting around with friends minding their own business and take it upon yourself to announce to them that they’re all Bad and Wrong?

    • Jolie Paradis

      Angry much?

  20. Common sense

    He never actually loved her. That is the original sin in their marriage. After enough of his passive aggression and emotional neglect, her own resentment began to grow and show. It started with him, don’t you dare try to spin it any other way.

    He was fat when she married him. He lost weight, gained confidence, and tried to shed his family like an exoskeleton.

    • JC

      Not true, according to the Rzuceks themselves. They’ve said publicly that they believe he loved her, was emotionally supportive, and very attentive to his wife throughout their marriage. And they lived with the family for months and months. Any emotional neglect he was guilty of didn’t begin to occur until the day after she left for NC. Shan’ann herself told him and others that as well.

      Would you tell her family “don’t you dare try to spin it any other way?”

      • nickvdl

        Good point. And remember what she said about him being “the best thing that’s ever happened to me.”

        • richard

          Nick, Do you think there is anything in the post’s Shanann kept posting about ‘Chris is the best thing’… ‘best husband in the world’…. type love bombing thing ?

          I could be reading into this too much but I wonder if Shanann done this to keep his attention on her or if Chris was demanding of this from Shanann.
          i.e. being used as a security measure by one of both

          I could be completely wrong but Shanann seemed to post things like this quite regularly on FB

          • nickvdl

            I think a big part of it was keeping up appearances. To show the world they were Thriving and thus make more money.

          • nickvdl

            But yes, there probably was a kind of coercion by social media as well. This is why I think Shan’ann was so adamant on doing the gender reveal. It would force him, based on societal pressure, to stay in the marriage.

      • George Pasture

        JC he loved her in the beginning but obviously not through the marriage as he told he started an affair and the murdered her. Something happened along the way that caused him to fall out of love. They lived with her and Chris a couple of months but that still means nothing as we now know. Everyone thought they had a good marriage but that was obviously not the case!! Things are not always as they seem! This is another example just like Scott and Laci Peterson – everyone who knew them thought they had a perfect marriage! Uh no!!

  21. daytime350

    Shanann pushed too hard too long and sent him over the edge…financially, emotionally and no self-esteem left with her. But she did underestimate how much he would take.

  22. kavy

    I think we all create what we need.

  23. Rod

    This is why I believe Cindy Watts when she said she didn’t like the way Shanann treated Chris. To post your spouses mistakes on Facebook for the sake of getting all your friend to agree with you and laugh at their expense is abuse, plain and simple. It’s sad things turned out the way they did, but it just goes to show that things like this don’t suddenly happen for no reason at all.

  24. Jim

    I found the original poster to be wickedly insightful and so I thoroughly engaged in the many posts on here. I found people’s opinions on this case to vary wildly and it made for an entertaining read. Unfortunately the being “entertained” aspect of my experience filled me with some guilt and eventually sadness. I remembered the victims and the families destroyed by this heinous crime and my heart was no longer into the “why”. In the end what does it matter? They’re all gone and he’s the reason. End of story.

  25. Gifted

    I don’t know why I’m even here. I guess it’s the Netflix documentary I viewed a few days ago. I remember researching the case via numerous youtube vids of the case. I also watched a lot of Shananns vids of herself, the kids and Chris. I think she was a full throttle type of person. She had past problems in her own life and had turned things around. She dumped all her eggs in one big basket when it came to Chris and I believe she really wasn’t that happy with him. And vice versa…he was tired of her too. I think his mom Cindy was and is a narcissistic person, and I think Chris himself had a very co dependent relationship with her and his family in general. I think Chris never felt good about himself and heard that his sister Sarah was the golden child, while he was the quiet one. I think his mom was probably more critical of him than his sister and he was of a dopey sort that frustrated her. Anyway, once he met Shannan she didn’t like the type of person she was. I think it’s very likely that Shannan was a lot LIKE CINDY in ways. Or rather, in a covert way, Cindy was like Shannan, but without the confidence. Having said this, I’m not sure Shannan was narcissistic but she was very self centered, passive aggressive and needed to be in control at all times. Cindy and her clashed because they were similar sorts. And perhaps, as Chris gained MORE of Cindy’s acceptance because he had actually achieved many things she thought him incapable of, she didn’t like now how Shanann controlled him, put him down and needed to be constantly in the limelight. I think Shanann was always a strong willed person. She did what she set out to do whether she succeeded or failed. She had all the support of her own family, but didn’t like that she had to put up with a controlling or P/A MIL.
    My thinking is that Chris was emotionally stunted and angry from the years of feeling less than in his own family and then being controlled and belittled by his wife. I also think finances weighed heavily upon him and the constant filming and having it uploaded online was too much. I think as long as Shannan felt he was under her control and on her side she felt secure, but the moment she sensed he was waffling, she began insulting his family, making him choose etc. While she was visiting her family in NC she texted with friends telling them about their problems and how he wasn’t interested in sex. I think his mental health was collapsing. I think her emotional health was collapsing because he began drifting aways from her and she was pissed. At the end, I think he knew he was going to kill her but really didn’t think anything through. Sex with Nicole was the boost to his fragile ego he never got. Sadly, he went to the dark side and let it take him over. A person like Chris Watts who had a little capacity for expressing his true nature, lacked a strong bond with his own children (just kind went through the motions) and had a very weak ego strength made worse by Shanann’s domineering personality sent him over the edge. The other thing is that Shananns several illnesses plus a car accident, plus a past abusive relationship made her look like a person who used these things to get attention and a ‘feel sorry for me but now I’m a success’ as a backstory for her online marketing career. Even if any of this is true, constantly being ill and or talking about your illness or making everything ABOUT YOU and what you’re always trying to accomplish left Chris with even less of an identity and overwhelmed by whatever life script his wife was directing. Nevertheless, what he did to his wife and those innocent children leaves NO room for empathy here. You can certainly see how psychologically these two people were NOT well suited to each other and how given Chris Watts deeper darker machinations he kept suppressed his brain was looking for a release and an escape. In the end in a way, Shannann reminded him of his mother and I believe in a very real way he hated her.

  26. Helen

    I too watched the Netflix documentary. Shannan was belittling her children too. Did you pick up on that ? “if you keep falling off Daddy, then he won’t let you sit on his back any longer..”. For pete sake ! Let a kid act like a kid! The girls were having fun falling off Chris’ back. But nope–there Shannan was…nag nag nag. She put her children on display for the ‘perfect’ family. She so belittled Chris–all the time. Shannan learned to nag somewhere..her mom? Dad?

  27. Gely

    Doesn’t matter how Shannan was with him in their relationship her and those little girls did not deserve to be murdered!! This was an act of cruelty, evilness and selfishness on his behalf and all cause he was being a nasty horn dog with another girl he had only known for a short amount of time! And what a bunch of idiots some of you are feeling bad for this monster who didn’t have the balls to just be straight out with his wife and get a divorce instead of doing what he did 😤

  28. Tatiana

    I would believe this in any other case-BUT he killed tow little girls who adored him. Two innocent angels. THAT doe snot jibe with your theory. Sorry. If he only killed the wife then yes I would believe it was out of impotence and frustration from narcissistic abuse however a victim of narcissistic abuse would only hurt her perpetrator NOT two baby girls who idolized their daddy so He is a narcissist too.I know, I am a survivor and now thrive after narcissitic abuse by sick ugly femalea.

  29. MARTI NY

    I can’t believe some of the comments I have read here. Divorce is legal in this country. Ur unhappy? GET THE HELL OUTTA DODGE! What u don’t do is go on a murder spree annihilating ur wife and babies. Do u even realize the slippery slope ur descending when u start looking for reasons to justify multiple murders instead of reasons for why he should have just walked out on a “nagging,” pregnant wife? Because obviously he wasn’t so miserable that he stopped having sex with her, was he? What’s next? She was a slob & terrible cook, kill her. She dressed sexy & attracted a lot of attention from the opposite sex, kill her. She always heckled me about the way I dressed, complained that I watch too many sports…kill her kill her kill her. Oh and the babies too so I can sever all ties while I’m at it.
    IF THIS JUSTIFIES MURDER TO U, U DEFINITELY NEED AN ADJUSTMENT IN UR MORAL COMPASS!

  30. Mia

    My Fiance teases me constantly (which is what I call it). Sometimes I hate it. Sometimes I laugh. Sometimes I want to pull his hair. But I have never wanted to cheat on him, murder him, or murder our Cats. I have wanted to leave him once and awhile. But I know he loves me. I have a voice. So if he goes to far I tell him.

    My ex husband on the other hand gas lighted, cheated, lied, bullied, etc, So him I did leave. It wasn’t SW bullying; It was damaging bullying. And he too I did not kill. Murder is never the answer although I see a lot of people in the comments think it is.

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