True Crime Analysis, Breakthroughs, Insights & Discussions Hosted by Bestselling Author Nick van der Leek

Mark Lehrer’s Interview with Nichol Kessinger on August 15, 2018 [48th Tranche]

The media reporting and the Discovery Documents are a little slippery when it comes to specificity about when exactly Kessinger contacted the cops [or who contacted whom first], and the precise time this happened.

It appears the first time Kessinger spoke to law enforcement was on August 15, the same day Watts confessed. It’s possible that Kessinger was contacted by phone first [prior to the discussion below on August 15], or that Kessinger herself contacted the cops by phone.

fullscreen capture 20190121 175113fullscreen capture 20190121 175443

Although this interview was recorded, and despite many YouTube clips claiming to the be the “first interview” with Kessinger, her meeting with the FBI’s Mark Lehrer was her first one-on-one interview with law enforcement. Below is the audio of that first interview. Give it until 3:28 before the static “settles down”.


fullscreen capture 20190121 173018fullscreen capture 20190121 173034fullscreen capture 20190121 173143fullscreen capture 20190121 173227fullscreen capture 20190121 173309fullscreen capture 20190121 173336fullscreen capture 20190121 173400

fullscreen capture 20190121 175329

fullscreen capture 20181209 193959


  1. tyu

    Then when was this interview taken?

    It’s with Philip Jones and Mark Lehrer… been a while sense I listened to it, but I don’t remember her father saying anything.

    • nickvdl

      Thanks. Didn’t know about this and the post has now been edited to include it.

  2. Kathleen

    She says Watts lied about everything, but the only like she remembers is about his wife being pregnant. First he denies, then admits, paternity. I think it was this circumstance that sent her to police. She was furious that he has been intimate with the woman she knew him to be married to. The more I learn about her, the more despicable she seems. Is she really in witness protection? It just seems so wrong that taxpayers would have to buy her a new identity, pay for her move and expenses. She is not guiltless.

  3. EllTee

    I believe her.

    I do not believe she had anything to do with the murders, nor did she have any knowledge before or after the fact. The only aspect I think she might be fudging is how much she really knew about his marital status and about Shan’ann’s pregnancy, and when she knew it.

    Her life has been upended unfairly, and if she really is in witness protection, it’s because she was doxxed so quickly and the death threats started immediately. Adultery is reprehensible, but in America, it does not warrant the death penalty, and I would not want to live in any of the countries where it is.

    It’s an interesting thought exercise to speculate how long Nichol would have stayed with CW, had he ended his marriage by legal and conventional means. Not long, I think. She seems to be a young woman with her act together, insofar as career, finances, health, life goals, lifestyle. There are plenty of young men out there without the “baggage” CW would have been bringing along into their relationship. Plus, I don’t imagine someone with a strong personality like Shan’ann would have just faded into the background, at least not at first. My suspicion is that NK would have ended things with him in a relatively short period of time. She could definitely do better. But then again, that chemistry is a powerful thing, and it might have kept them going for at least awhile. Sadly, we will never know.

    • Pam Foldesi

      You obviously have not watched “Armchair Detective: No Hiding Place” ‘s videos, on his channel on YouTube.
      With his “2 jeans” video, he proves that “A WOMAN with long dark hair” was at the Watts’ residence, with Chris Watts, on the morning of Aug. 13th, + his “Watts in the Shadows” 5-part series, where it appears that Bella walks out of the house. Chris Watts ‘bends down, picks her up’ and puts her in the truck.
      He slowed down the video about 60 times to show his theory.
      Note his play on words: What’s in the Shadows.
      Armchair Detective has sent his work to the CBI, and is waiting on a reply.

  4. Sylvester

    I very much like what you just said Elltee. You know Watts said over and over once he started to come clean to the agents interrogating him, that he didn’t tell Shan’ann about the affair (and I believe that because he’s a coward) but that she just knew. She just knew. I think it’s more that she just suspected. Because if she actually knew, he would have been ousted on his keister. Women can forgive a lot, but that – it’s pretty hard to take. It’s the ultimate betrayal. It’s certainly hard to believe after an argument she would have just cried, laid back down with mascara running down her face, then gotten back up and run and strangled the kids. I also like it that you are speculating whether NK would have ended things with Watts. It’s a long drawn out process, getting a divorce. They could have been tied up in divorce court for years. She would have tired of any and all stalling tactics he may have employed.

    • nickvdl

      I’m beginning to suspect Kessinger really didn’t know about the pregnancy, just as Shan’ann didn’t know about the affair. And for the same reason you mention here. He was a coward.

      • ncam619

        I would be willing to believe that she didn’t know about the pregnancy if she didn’t search shanann’s PUBLIC fb page. She’s a woman. If we search something, we do a complete investigation. Especially when another woman is involved.

    • EllTee

      Yeah, I just don’t see NK sticking around long, especially when she’s so young, upwardly mobile, and has so much more relationship capital than CW would have had. The x factor, though, is the personal chemistry between the two. That wanes, but still, it can sustain a relationship long past its sell-by date when it’s powerful enough. Interesting to speculate.

  5. Sylvester

    It could actually be that there are a few honest, decent people in the world, who are prompted to do the right thing. When NK confronts Watts about the pregnancy what’s his first inclination. Lie.

  6. Kaye

    I think she might have made a slip up here. I’m wondering whether Chris did mention she was pregnant but had already planted the lie that it was someone else’s child.

    At about 27:00, she describes going to the house on Saratoga. She sees a picture of Shan’ann and the girls, comments on how beautiful she is, and jokingly asks Chris “what’s wrong with you?” According to her they both laugh (unbelievable), and then she says she asked Chris why he wouldn’t try to work out the relationship, “she is the mother of two of your kids”—why would she word it that way? Why not just say “your kids”? Very very weird.

    • nickvdl

      Well, bear in mind she’s telling the story retrospectively. So at the time she’s telling the story she’s become aware of [or potentially become aware of] additional information.

      • Kaye

        Good point. The way that she described it made it seem like that was the wording she used at the time though. Still sounds odd to me. Plus she said to the detective that she had pressured Chris to admit Nico was his, so she wouldn’t still be believing the “lie” when talking to them.

  7. CBH

    For the longest time I believed NK had foreknowledge of the murders, and may well have been an accessory to murder or at least been involved in the coverup . And why? Because every YouTube that I watched had hundreds of posters saying so, and I assumed they must know what they were speaking about.

    Now, examining things, it doesn’t really look that way to me anymore.

    It makes the crime far less interesting to me and more depressing and pathetic for CW.

    • Pam Foldesi

      Have you seen the “2 jeans” video by “Armchair Detective, No Hiding Place”?

      If it wasn’t NK, then it was a woman with long dark hair, at Watts’ place, on the morning of Aug. 13th.

      • nickvdl

        Pam I don’t want loony tune conspiracies at this site. I work very hard to filter away all the mud and murk in terms of the lies and deceptions of the prime suspect. It’s hard enough figuring out a case without having to deal with the nonsense.

      • CBH

        I actually did just view that last night as it came up on my YouTube suggestions. Extremely compelling.

  8. Sylvester

    Pt. 9 of the interrogation of CW he tells Lee and Coder “I told her (Nichole K.) we were trying to get pregnant before we (before he and Nichole) met.” Notice that lie – before I met you my wife and I were trying to get pregnant – not that they did, and also I don’t know if he told her this as a coverup for not telling her after she found it out through the media, or if he told her that sometime in June or July, or if he said anything to Kessinger at all.

    • CBH

      He likely told her this as a “warm up” for if/when the truth came out.

    • Nick

      Interesting and important observation Sylvester.

  9. Mustang Sally

    I have hesitated mentioning this because I cannot link (due to lack of recall) back to every item I reference yet I’m going to go ahead and through this out there for anyone with more technological knowledge than I…

    When NK deleted her texts and other information relative to CW, it’s possible she scrambled the data before removing it…or the person who did it for her took this precautionary step on her behalf. I have read a text conversation published on YouTube between NK and CW in which the presenter highlights the texts in one color each to represent the conversation from either NK or CW but then explains that “somehow” it gets reversed and the color coding is inaccurate as it’s obvious the dialogue is attributable to the other person. The conversation also has missing pieces, or interjects comments that are seemingly irrelevant or don’t make sense. A transcript between NK and her friend Charlotte was very hard to decipher until someone put it together “logically.” The random search of Shan’ann on NK phone on 9.1.17, even the two hour search no one has asked her about for wedding dresses….these could all be the result of retrieval after data scramble which would throw all the conversational dialogue into pure chaos upon any retrieval attempt. Just a thought. Somewhere along the way one or both NK and/or CW mentions scrMbling data. I cannot recall where I heard, read, or referenced that either. Just thoughts for anyone who may have more insight into this? It may also explain why there are no documents detailing the text conversations between NK and CW.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *