True Crime Analysis, Breakthroughs, Insights & Discussions Hosted by Bestselling Author Nick van der Leek

Shan’ann Watts’ Criminal and Traffic Record

While researching the TWO FACE series there was very little concrete information on Shan’ann Watts. Not nothing, but very little, and because we still don’t have her financial records, it was hard to be sure one way or another about specifics regarding Shan’ann’s past.

Although I can’t find the actual quote, I seem to remember the District Attorney mentioning that neither Chris Watts nor Shan’ann Watts had a criminal history – in Colorado.

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The one thing that stood out though was the Watts filing for bankruptcy in 2015. That doesn’t just happen. But the question remained, were both parties reckless and profligate, or was one worse than the other? And if so, how much worse? And in what way did this recklessness manifest? Just run-of-the-mill credit card debt, or something worse?

The picture is gradually becoming clearer.

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  1. Jenn H.

    OCD is associated with reckless, compulsive behavior.
    Sounds like Shan’ann’s OCD, must have encompassed this,
    which may explain the traffic violations, etc…

    • Sheis

      Ah, yes, the OCD. I doubt she had lupus or fibromyalgia or diabetes or infertility or any other illness she claimed. The only thing wrong with her was Factitious Disorder. (Aside from the gallstone, her autopsy showed she was in perfect health.)

      She belonged to all those FB support groups so she could network and sell THRIVE. I knew a MLMer who did the same thing. Rheumatoid Arthritis, Fibro, you name it. Trying to sell essential oils as a cure. “you know what helped me? This special blend of oils!”

      There’s one born every minute.

      • Ralph Oscar

        “She belonged to all those FB support groups so she could network and sell THRIVE. I knew a MLMer who did the same thing. Rheumatoid Arthritis, Fibro, you name it.”

        That totally makes sense. That’s why her kids had to be sick and ill-behaved, too. To show how the Magic Patch enabled her to overcome everything and be SuperMom.

  2. Sideaffected

    I’m confused. Are you saying that these are directly related to her bankruptcy, or just that they show that she’s reckless in general? Most of these infractions aren’t even misdemeanors, and the improper speedometer thing is a step down from a speeding ticket. I’m not sure how much she would have owed for all this. I think the bankruptcy had more to do with medical bills certainly and generally living beyond her means. It’s pretty minor stuff criminally especially compared to the stuff you’ve posted about others (not to mention Chris.) She doesn’t seem to have addictions found in her and the Watts families except maybe shopping/spending. I’ve never heard many details about the alleged embezzlement-she was never charged with it but she did seem to have a spending addiction so I wouldn’t necessarily be surprised. Wish I knew more about it.

    • nickvdl

      Are you saying that these are directly related to her bankruptcy, or just that they show that she’s reckless in general?>>>What do you think?

    • mitzi2006

      And some of these are 17 years old when she was still a teenager. I got a stop sign ticket and one for having alcohol outside a dwelling when I was 18, does that mean if my husband kills me and our children that my past would say I’m from a crime family or I had an alcohol problem? I doubt it would be brought up even if I was the one that killed my family

      • nickvdl

        Have you noticed on this site a few posts about crime related to other family members, and instances of suicide?

        • mitzi2006

          Yes, I have. There’s a reason what your extended family has done criminally isn’t argued to a judge or jury, especially traffic tickets in a murder case if you’re the defendant. It definitely isn’t for the victim. I understand looking at their past for analyzing what happened if it’s criminal on either Chris or Shan’anns part or even in their immediate family. Traffic violations years old or what one of your cousins did is reaching. My opinion

          • Shannon

            But it shows the history, of this family. They are definitely not squeaky clean people.
            Shanann’ had to learn somewhere how to scam people and the law.

          • Teri

            His father was apparently a drug addict. His mother was the type of person who called her son’s best friend to sabotage her daughter in law after not empathizing with a 3 year old who had a nut allergy. They are not squeaky clean and they raised a murderer. His mother seems to be a horrible human being, she still blames Shanann for her own murder. His family has everything to do with the degenerate he turned out to be. So why focused on traffic tickets and crimes and suicides of removed family of the victim’s family. So if your family is not squeaky clean and you get murdered, oh well? His daughters were not even cold yet when he shoved them down the oil tanks, I dont see what her traffic tickets have to do with that. There a lot of recklessness in this situation. He was sexually reckless, having affairs. Also why was his mistress googling threesomes and anal sex. But no lets focus on years old traffic violations.

          • Shannon

            I’m assuming your new here.
            His dad was not a drug addict. We don’t know how long, how much drugs he did. So what, his parents don’t like Shanann. Who cares…..they wouldn’t be the first to dislike a daughter / son in law. This post is show Histories of the families. We are all not perfect, and Shanann’s family was definitely not. Committing a robbery home invasion, child abuse is different then doing doing a few lines of Coke.
            Are you familiar with crimes / murders. Compared to other crimes this is mild. He could have chainsawed them, burnt them, drowned them.
            He chose this path. Why….I don’t know.
            Do you know?
            Maybe do some more research. I’m tired of my comments, getting comments from Newbies.

          • Ira

            Amazes me that people still aren’t getting what this site is about . I just started commenting but have been following for several months and have enjoyed everyone’s insights . This is a fascinating case . It is very sad but it’s also very real and so nuanced that we are just thirsting for more info on the truth surrounding the Watts family .

          • Shannon

            We all have to be mini detectives here. Poor Nick is doing So much to help us all….understand.

          • Teri

            A few lines of coke demonstrates reckless behavior, the fact that his family picked up on it shows it wasn’t just a few lines. Possession of coke is also a much more serious charge than a traffic ticket. Not that he was charged but he could have been and that is reckless. That can also be the basis to remove children from a home unlike traffic tickets. And child abuse isn’t that what Chris Watts did when he took his half dressed children, 3 and 4, on a 45 minute drive, no car seats, to kill them. Isn’t murdering your entire family the worst thing anyone did within these two families.
            Also the video posted is from a crazy woman who is doing nothing more than spreading speculations, like questioning the paternity of Nico and suggesting Shanann induced a miscarriage which were proven to be false. She is also suggesting some big cover up by the investigators. This site is only as credible as its resources.

          • Right44

            True Crime Rocket Science group is not for everyone. TCRS is unique.

            True Crime Rocket Science is unique. It is preoccupied with the why of crimes and criminals, and thus is above all focused on anthropodicy and the science of man. We find out why people do what they do by finding out who people are. And who is a function of identity, social dynamics and backstory. Through cogent true crime analysis, especially into criminal psychology, we have a unique opportunity to learn to understand those around us, and principally, ourselves.

          • Mike

            One can only hope the people spending precious time and energy…to attempt the justification of four murders, three of which are children, do in fact learn much about themselves. I’ll stick with the sixth commandment.

          • Sass


          • Sass

            I put my agree comment under the wrong person. Lol, I agree with you.

    • Sass

      Chris said the bankruptcy was due to their wedding spending. I was confused as well on what was trying to be said here. I’ve always had a heavy foot while driving and I have had my share of tickets and my husband does too. We are not in too much debt and we’ve never had a bankruptcy. She was driving around with a broken odometer. Thats supposed to be reckless behavior? If it is then I am in trouble.

  3. Sylvester

    Kind of shows to me she had a wanton disregard for the rules of the road – no operator’s license or insurance would be the worst of these offenses. It also shows that she had a wanton disregard for incurring debts and taking responsibility for those debts by at least not wracking them up in the first place or trying to pay them off. It’s saying to me that she feels she doesn’t have to operate inside the rules and was living in an alternate universe – and others may have made excuses for her.

    • Ralph Oscar

      The “no operator’s license” could simply mean she forgot her DL at home in her other purse or in her other pants. I’ve done that before – all you need to do is to show up to court and show them the DL and they’ll remove the note from your record (or whatever it is they do), though they’ll likely charge you some nominal fee/fine.

      But the no insurance one – all the cop cars have onboard computers that show whether the person has active insurance coverage, whether they have the little card in the glove compartment or not. The insurance companies feed this information to them. So she didn’t have car insurance – that suggests financial problems to me.

      • Right44

        In my state the law states that a person operating a vehicle must have his DL on his person. Judges here grew weary of hearing, “I left it at home.”

        • Ralph Oscar

          That’s why, in order to get the citation lifted, the person must show the license to the court. And they pay a fine to assuage the judge’s annoyance.

          • Right44

            Driving without license is a crime. A citation is not lifted or dismissed unless a person proves he is not guilty. Appearing in court before a judge is never a simple matter. Showing a license to a judge after the fact does nothing to reduce punishment.

          • Ralph Oscar

            Perhaps things have changed. I’ve gotten tagged for driving without my DL; all I had to do was show up in court, show it to the judge, and pay a nominal fee.

  4. Ralph Oscar

    The one citation that I find most concerning is the driving without insurance one. Because that suggests money problems.

  5. Sylvester

    Maybe yes, maybe no. But there is a pattern here of not thinking the rules apply to you, wouldn’t you say? And if you cannot afford auto insurance, you don’t drive. Looks like she was warned multiple times about her speedometer and also window tinting. Fast forward to 2017 and the homeowner’s dues aren’t paid, etc. Went to the wrong address? Or a wanton disregard for being responsible for the things you have to pay attention to in life.

  6. Right44

    There’s been talk from day one about Shannan’s past arrests and involvement with law enforcement, but nobody could locate proof anywhere until now. This shows me how Nick does not give up when he is researching. This information certainly shows a pattern of not following rules and being irresponsible in general.

    • Sheis

      Perhaps someone can look into the talk of the embezzlement at Dirty South…

      That’s part of the financial picture. It’s impossible for a retail manager to afford the house on Peninsula Drivw on salary alone…

  7. Sylvester

    In NC pleading for an improper equipment (speedometer) refers to an attempt to reduce the fine for a speeding ticket issued. It’s considered a non-moving violation. I thought maybe she was driving with an improper speedometer but now I see it’s plea. No points on your record, car insurance doesn’t go up and the fine is less. But looks like she used that several times.

    • Clean Queen

      Thanks for confirming this. I’ve seen things like this before, and I’m sure it varies from state to state. When I was a teenager, I had a speeding ticket reduced to littering but still, it shows a definite pattern of reckless behavior. Usually going through being pulled over and dealing with court fines or fees is enough for most people to decide they don’t want to deal with that again. Same for the bankruptcy. It’s hard to fathom going through bankruptcy once and then letting that happen all over again. One would imagine she would’ve done everything in her power to avoid having that happen again. So careless.

  8. Right44

    One incident was handled in Demographics Court.

    A “demographic infraction” means that in all likelihood she got cited with some sort of a local infraction. It is not as serious as a misdemeanor or a felony crime. Probably some sort of local ordinance violation.
    The “demographic” label means the charge most probably resulted from a local/county code infraction specific in the area where she was residing instead of a more serious state crime.

    • nickvdl

      Thanks for the information. There’s a parallel here, in a sense, to the protracted failure to pay the Wyndham Hill Homeowners Association. I mean in the sense that it’s like a “local ordinance” thing, and perhaps she felt it wasn’t a priority and could be put off.

  9. Ira

    It does seem as if it is a pattern though , regardless of the violations are serious or not . This suggests someone who is irresponsible and thinks the rules don’t apply to them and it’s obvious this thought process continued throughout her life . I’m interested in finding out more about the possible embezzlement, her work life before the MLMs, her financial records and what truly spawned the first bankruptcy.

  10. Sylvester

    One happened in South Carolina (7/5/07) too. One in Moore County, NC – something I was trying to find via I would like to see the divorce decree from Leonard King if it’s published somewhere. I want to know how she came by 1000 Peninsula Drive. $334,500 is alot of money for someone who was likely earning an hourly wage – at the children’s hospital wasn’t it?

    • Ira

      Yes !! So many questions still unanswered. I bet Leonard has a wealth of information .

      • Shannon

        Shanann’ saw kings 2nd wife was working for Le vel. She saw like all…oh great things… apparently that’s how she got into that.

    • Sheis

      Sylvester, was she working at the children’s hospital in NC or CO?

      I had the idea she met her friend Jenna Dietz in nursing school in NC (Shanann didn’t stay in nursing school, obvs) Jeanna is a nurse in CO, and Shanann and Chris stayed with them until they got their housing settled. Jeanna is a nurse at the children’s hospital and most likely helped Shanann her job there.

      • Ralph Oscar

        My thought is that Shan’Ann worked at a children’s hospital in NC, but when she moved with Chris to CO, she took a job in phone sales at the same car dealership where he’d gotten a job as a mechanic. When she got pregnant, she quit and at some point around there, he took that job at Andarko.

        • Ira

          That sounds like an accurate timeline Ralph.

          • JC

            Hi Ira, Ralph and Sheis: I believe she was working the phone scheduling position for St. Lukes Children’s Hospital in Denver, and it was the job she held when she quit to do her MLM full time. I don’t have time to source that confirmation right now, sorry, so I’ll just say I’m *almost* certain of it. (It does get me to wondering, though, when and why exactly she left the Ford dealership in Longmont, since she seemed to be doing so well there.)

          • Ralph Oscar

            Okay, gotta go look things up – from

            >>But a June 2015 bankruptcy filing captures a picture of a family caught between a promising future and financial strain.

            >>Christopher Watts had gotten a job six months earlier as an operator for Anadarko, and paystubs indicate his annual salary was about $61,500. Shanann Watts was working in a call center at a children’s hospital at the time, earning about $18 an hour — more for evenings, weekends or extra shifts she sometimes worked.

            >>The couple had a combined income of $90,000 in 2014. But they also had tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt, along with some student loans and medical bills — for a total of $70,000 in unsecured claims on top of a sizable mortgage.

            2014 is *before* Shan’Ann got involved with LeVel and Thrive – that was in February or March 2016, *after* the 2015 bankruptcy.

            >>They said in the filing that their nearly $3,000 mortgage and $600 in monthly car payments formed the bulk of their $4,900 in monthly expenses.

            That $600 in car payments was also *before* the Thrive Lexus SUV. So these two were no strangers to huge car payments – that was apparently their “normal”. Which goes a long way toward their acceptance of ~$800/month lease payments that might or might not get paid by LeVel. That’s appalling to me – my “normal” is to buy a gently-used late-model vehicle with cash and then drive it until it drops (repeat as necessary). With that *lease*, they’re accepting a scenario where they’re *paying* ~$800/mo to simply *USE* a car that they don’t even *own*! Isn’t that the *dumbest thing* you ever heard of??

            And from TCRS article “THIS is where Chris Watts worked before switching to become an Operator with Anadarko”:

            >>A Daily Beast article identified Shan’ann Watts’ boss as Greg Alore. Initially Shan’ann worked with her husband at the dealership – him on the floor as a mechanic, her in internet sales.

            >It’s not clear when Shan’ann quit working at the dealership. We know from the bankruptcy filing that she was pregnant with her second child by then and intended working “fewer hours”. We also know at the time of the bankruptcy filing Shan’ann was earning virtually nothing, and by the following year when she started at Le-Vel she was broke.

            At the time of their bankruptcy filing in summer 2015, Shan’Ann was 9 months pregnant with CeCe.

            Here we go, from the Daily Beast:

            >>According to social media posts, Bella Marie was born in December 2013, and Celeste Cathryn was born in July 2015. (A month before the birth of Celeste, affectionately called CeCe in home videos and social media, the couple filed for bankruptcy.)

            >>In April 2017, Shanann announced was leaving her job at the children’s hospital to become a full-time stay-at-home mom working for the Le-Vel supplement company, which makes Thrive dietary patches. “I’m really excited and looking forward to working from where ever my girls are!” Shanann wrote on Facebook, adding the hashtags #Myfamilydeservesme and #Wontmissanythinganymore.

            >>On her one-year anniversary with the brand, she told Facebook friends she was “broke” when she started Le-Vel.

            >>On June 15, Shanann wrote, “Chris, just said he’s been more talkative since he started #Burn! Talking to random strangers. #Hesaintrovert.”

            I’m an introvert, but I become more talkative when I’ve had too much caffeine. Just sayin’…

            >>Before working for the multi-level marketing brand, Shanann was exhausted from her two jobs, including one overnight at Children’s Hospital Colorado in Aurora. She said Thrive allowed her to quit and stay home with her daughters, whom she’d sent to private school.

            Aha. So Shan’Ann had been working two jobs up until April, 2017; during that time, she’d gotten their girls into that expensive daycare (c’mon – “private school”? Give me a freakin’ BREAK!) because she was working during the day at the Ford dealership and pulling shifts at night at the hospital.

            But somehow, the original plan to quit work in order to become a “full-time stay-at-home mom” *with* her girls turned into being a “full-time stay-at-home mom” *WITHOUT* the girls – they remained in full-time daycare the same as when she was working her two jobs.

            I saw this with a former neighbor – the lady down the street was laid off from her job at the San Onofre nuclear plant in So. CA, so she could no longer afford the daycare for her 5-yr-old daughter. So she sent her daughter “over to play” with my neighbor’s kids, who were close in age, all day every day. The girl even took meals over there! Meanwhile, the girl’s mom started shilling Cookie Lee cheap jewelry – that’s another MLM, in case you don’t recognize it. As soon as kindergarten started, though, that’s where the girl went; she never went next door to play after that. The mom, accustomed to working full time and having her daughter in day care, apparently did not know what to do with the child now that they were both home, so she found a no-cost day care replacement until she could enroll her child in real school.

            From what we have seen, Shan’Ann never did develop tolerance for her own children – they were in day care all day long, then were only home for, like, 2 hours before she put them in bed for the night. And on the days they were home, they were taking long naps. Anything to get them out of sight so Shan’Ann didn’t have to deal with them.

          • Shannon

            That was good, Ralph.
            I had read alot of what you wrote.

          • Ralph Oscar

            Thanks, Shannon. Back atcha.

          • JC

            Very detailed sourcing, Ralph! Thank you for taking the time. Now I see she was working both jobs simultaneously, good to know.

    • Shannon

      Sylvester, she was making $18.00 an hour at the call centre for the hospital.
      Apparently her boss at dirty South charged her with taking money, but…..But Shanann says she talked him out of the charges.
      It’s very hard for the person charging someone to “just drop the charges”.

      • Ralph Oscar

        “It’s very hard for the person charging someone to “just drop the charges”.”

        Not always – my brother-in-law’s father ran a computer store back when desktop computers were first coming out, and he hired an accountant who embezzled from him. He caught the guy, but didn’t want to be the “bad guy”, since the accountant had a family etc. So he simply fired him.

        And he embezzled from his next employer, too…

        • Shannon

          But she was charged.

          • Ralph Oscar

            Charges are often dropped. Especially if the party doing the charging discovers just how much it’s going to cost to pursue those charges.

            Happens alla time.

      • Ira

        I saw something that said she was sleeping with the boss at Dirty South. Think she offered himself to her so he would drop the charges?

  11. Shannon

    It shows a pattern of her disreguard for rules. Which follow her thru her life.
    The history of the Rzucek and especially the Orientation is not good.

  12. Shannon

    Oh my…. Sandi’s family.

  13. Sam

    To me this feels slightly like victim blaming and/or shaming – what’s in her past that would cause him to murder her – it’s wrong….I don’t care what kind of history she had, what her spending habits were, whether she embezzled money – she was a pregnant Mom with two little girls is there any reason you can dig up that makes this crime ok or explainable? Is it like she was addicted to shopping or had total disregard of driving laws so somehow she had this coming? I just can’t figure out what her past history has to do with her being the victim here! Money problems don’t explain someone deciding to annihilate his entire family so why are you digging into her past and the past of her family? They are all victims….how much more do they need to suffer before they are left alone and not have people digging dirt on their murdered daughter?

    • Ira

      Sam , no disrespect but I think you are missing the point . Nobody is trying to justify the killing on this site , we are just exploring the origins in detail to try and figure out why and how this could have happened and that involves going through the past history of those involved . Nobody is victim blaming or saying she deserved this .

      • nickvdl

        I don’t care what kind of history she had. I just can’t figure out what her past history has to do with her being the victim here!>>>Well, there is a connection even if you can’t figure it out.

    • Maura

      None of the victims deserved to be murdered. However, their escalating financial situation was a big factor which CW will never admit. The police have never released all the financial data that contributed. More details here.

    • Sass

      I have been shaking my head for months over the levels people are bending to in order to smear her and imply something. Now here we have crimes that are not even big enough to be a misdemeanor and yet people are saying that this somehow shows a disregard for rules. Ok, and? So are we gonna start saying that everyone with more than a few traffic tickets and a bankruptcy has a higher risk of being murdered in the future? And I love the people that tell me that they are not victim blaming even though Shanann’s perceived misdeeds are always brought up in constant relation to the murders. More than Chris’ in fact. If I am having a conversation with someone in the youtube comments about the way Chris describes killing Shanann there is always someone that responds to me by telling me something negative about Shanann. I got into it a tad with someone that wanted me to know that Shanann refused to include Chris in the finances and froze him out of everything. When I responded by telling them that the photos of their bank statements clearly shows both his name and Shanann’s on the account and he could have easily gone online or called the bank to get any information he wanted this person nearly short short circuited telling me it was still her fault. I worked for their bank, they had USAA and I can assure everyone that Shanann could not have called their bank or any other bank for that matter and demand for Chris not be allowed to have access to their account. It’s a joint account. It would be illegal for any bank to deny him access. He would be able to sue those banks and win if they kept him away from records with his name on it. His name is on the house, all insurance, credit cards, HOA and other things I am sure I’m forgetting. The fact that he is telling everyone Shanann was the only one with access is laughable. If he didn’t know the password, we’ve all been there, call your bank or go online, answer some personal questions no one else should know, come up with a new password and bam, access. He did not need Shanann’s permission to pay attention to their monthly bills or financial records if he wanted too. The fact that he didn’t and blamed his wife for his laziness should tell everyone what type of person he is. It should have people questioning a lot of the critical things he said about her. If he didn’t want Shanann to know that he was keeping track of their money he did not have to tell her. He willfully chose to delegate all of this to Shannan then turned around and tried to use it to his advantage to gain sympathy. And people fell for it. Those HOA checks he said he had not one clue where they went could have been easily figured out by calling his bank, asking them if the checks were actually sent somewhere and if the bank said yes they could tell him where they went and if they were cashed. If no checks were being sent out then he would know Shanann did not send them. Chris seems to inspire people to drop the bar real low for him and coddle him. That is probably half his problem right there. But still, whether he kept track with his finances or not it’s still no reason for her and her girls to be dead.

      • nickvdl

        Ok, and? So are we gonna start saying that everyone with more than a few traffic tickets and a bankruptcy has a higher risk of being murdered in the future? >>>Let me try to explain what we – some of us anyway – are getting at.

        Let’s say I arrive at your home, and knock on your door. After a few moments you open the door. I step past you, pick up your keys, head out again and then walk to your car in the driveway. I open the door, start it, back down the driveway and then drive the car and smash it into the next car down the road. I get out, walk back to you and give you the car keys. Do you think your mood or feelings may have shifted in any way as a result of this?

        Let’s say you’re quite a nice person, and don’t get ruffled very easily. So I step past you again, head to the kitchen and find a sturdy frying pain. I pick it up and start smashing things. All the crockery, your refrigerator, all your appliances. I go into the lounge and smash your television. I smash your phone and computer. Then I smash your windows. I smash out the lights. I smash out everything I can find. Then I hand you the frying pan. Do you think your mood or feelings may have shifted in any way as a result of this?

        Let’s say, for reasons of argument, that you’re in a good mood and nothing is really going to change that. So I take back the frying pan I’ve just given you and I start smashing you with it. I smash out your teeth, hit you really hard in solar plexus, break a few fingers, maybe even break your nose. Do you think your mood or feelings may have shifted in any way as a result of this?

        I guess the point I’m trying to make is that certain things may [or may not] accumulate and aggravate a situation, and it may [or may not] change one person’s view and feelings towards someone else. Certain things coming from one person may cause reactions in other person, especially within the “closed” confines of a marriage.

        The Chris Watts case is a strange one where even the DA says it’s very hard to say why he did what he did. So what we’re looking for are a few possible areas that may or may not have been a factor in Watts’ thinking.

        If you think the illustrations here of physical harm to your home or to your body seem absurd or silly, you may want to think a little further and imagine all those things not being physically destroyed, and certainly not in a single day, but they’re definitely about to be lost. You may think about it as simply disappearing or in a more fraught way as being destroyed by someone else against your will. Or maybe you don’t care if your things are destroyed. Some people, on the other hand, might care.

        In the same way, the destruction of the body isn’t necessarily happening because of a frying pan hitting your teeth, but maybe a pregnancy or sickness in the family makes you feel like you are dying or unable to live. Maybe you’re not sexually satisfied and that’s simply not a nice feeling. The injury may not be physical [to you] at all, but is instead something said or not said to you over the course of a six year marriage that hurts you more than a physical injury. But the point of illustrating a physical injury is to describe very real pain. And this accumulates in the person and perhaps their feelings change in some way. So what we’re doing is looking at some of these things and saying, could this have been a factor?

        We’re not saying, look here, Shan’ann got a speeding ticket, is that why she was murdered?
        We’re not saying, look here, Shan’ann spent $10 on a bar of chocolate and added to the bankruptcy, is that why she was murdered?
        We’re not saying, Chris Watts’ was hurt a lot because someone stepped on his toe and so he hurt Shan’ann by murdering her, she got what she deserved and it makes complete sense.

        We’re saying could this have been a factor? What about that? When we add these things together, are we starting to get a picture to explain why this happened or aren’t we? Is there another explanation? Or is there simply no explanation?

        Does that make sense?

        • Ralph Oscar

          Nick, sometimes I feel you’re far too generous…

          • nickvdl

            You and me both.

      • Me that is

        Obviously nothing excuses murder but it’s called mitigating, rather aggravating circumstances. It’s like having a young sweet puppy, who is innocent but is adopted by someone who loves the novelty of having a wee furry baby, but as that baby grows up, get curious the owner gets irritated and smacks its nose instead of teaching it, then the puppy smells food and it’s hungry so while eating a snack the young pup goes to grab food out of the owner’s hand instead of saying “no, don’t do that” the owner pushes the dog and calls it ugly names, then the puppy get older and wants to play so it jumps up being playful wanting attention again instead of guiding the dog and paying good attention the owner’s hits the dog and hollers out of anger calling it more names, I could go on and on with my analogy but I’m sure you get the point. Any living creature can only take so much abuse, emotional, mental, physical, psychological or verbal before it snaps back. Not saying any of this is the case but previous actions and moments can help explain current situations and how they came about. For every action there is a equal or greater reaction, it doesn’t justify but helps to show how pressures could have easily mounted overtime. Just the entire “keeping up with the jones’s” with a home not necessary and beyond means, a preschool that’s 25k per kid when just his salary alone barely covers that, etc etc. would be overwhelming and compounded by all the other factors. Also my spouse doesn’t handle our finances at all. Wouldn’t even know how to log in or even think to call the bank. Of course we talk about it all but just doesn’t want to be bothered by it. So it’s not that far fetched. Also I believe a lot is being withheld from the public to protect the victims of the case or for other influenced parties. Just my thoughts not that they mean anything.

        • Ira

          I agree. Not saying I would be driven to murder, but I could see how the years of abuse Chris dealt with , finally made him explode. He basically had no freedom whatsoever, worked like a dog for an unappreciative wife who not only did not work a real job and could have, but pissed away all the money he did make. And then treated him like crap. If I had to come home everyday physically exhausted to be forced to partake in Facebook videos for a stupid MLM, I would lose my mind .

  14. richard didd

    What is interesting is that the note that Chris Watts left at his parents stating ‘if anything happens to me, investigate Shannan’

    Makes me think although he wasnt in control of things like finances, he sure was aware that Shannan was pissing money up the wall (spending way beyond their means).

  15. Cory K

    I wonder if she could have been legally defined as a habitual driving offender. Once a person gets enough bad points on their driving record, they are no longer eligible for car insurance and can be facing a penalty of prison time or really, really stiff fines. The points reduce after time, and I wonder if she may have left the state so abruptly with her legal record as a cause.

  16. Sylvester

    I also think we have to take into account that after someone murders most people are scratching their heads thinking “he was such a nice guy, a quiet guy, kept to himself, provided for his family,etc.” and then the case is closed – like Stephen Paddock – no motive determined. Yet when we look further we see he had a criminal for a father, who was jailed, who was let out, who was wanted by the FBI and who his mother told him didn’t exist. He was dead. Yet, he was very much alive. How confusing for a boy. His father screwed people over for money. Isn’t that what Paddock did – play the Casinos for money, lots of money. Then he hit a losing streak as most do. There were other factors too. Doesn’t mean anyone needs to be sympathetic to him slaughtering people from the top floors of the Mandalay Bay hotel, but to close the case and stamp it “no motive determined” doesn’t do the people justice who he murdered. They all died just because they did. No completion there.

    We’re just trying to make these people real, know who they are, what their background behavior is, so that we don’t just view them as cardboard characters in some make believe doll house. Things they felt and did were very real to them, if not to us. “He could have” fill in the blank. Could he have? He most certainly didn’t, and why.

    • Duper Dayley

      Sylvester, your response was explanatory without being condescending. Everybody should act & react like Sylvester.

      • Sylvester

        That’s nice of you to say Duper Dayley but I can be a real jerk. 🙂 Thank you though.

        • Jenn H.

          Sylvester does make good points. Everyone here does!
          I really like this site because people have differences in
          theories and opinions .
          If someone doesn’t understand something Nick is always honest,
          kind enough to guide you in the right direction.

  17. Person100

    Looks like mostly traffic violations. My husband has traffic violations – some jurisdictions punish them extremely harshly – for example VA. He’s an extremely placid and responsible person otherwise. Never committed a crime. Served as a volunteer medic. Is extremely focused on helping people. But he has a speeding problem. This is just not a big deal at all.

    • nickvdl

      It’s not a big deal to you. In the context of Shan’ann being worried about a $68 restaurant bill hours before her murder, and her controlling OCD attitude [controlling the finances], these many violations seem something of a mismatch. If you think it’s of no consequence and irrelevant, that’s fine, but the question isn’t whether it’s irrelevant to you, but how relevant it is in terms of the circumstances and dynamics of this case.

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