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Shan’ann Watts’ Rootless Rags-to-Riches Early Life + First Home in Belmont [PICTURES]

In the last 10 years of Shan’ann’s life, between October 2002 and January 2012, she appears to have moved an astonishing 20 times. That’s twice a year every year for 10 years. Over a similar if slightly shorter span of time, Chris Watts moved 7 times, averaging about a move per year.

Fullscreen capture 20181010 104207

“I’ve pretty much had to work every Christmas since I can remember, because I was either waiting tables, um…in retail, or in the medical field. And all three of them are open on holidays.”

Meanwhile below Shan’ann talks a pretty big game – they’ve donated $500 000 to breast cancer awareness, she says. She says they’re shooting to donate another $500 000.

Consider that and the rags-to-riches evolution of Shan’ann’s journey to owning her own home.

Below is a list of 21 addresses Shan’ann lived in or worked in on her way to #2825 Saratoga Trail, in Frederick, Colorado. Images below show the map reference and the distance of the Watts family home outside Spring Lake. Note the sudden change in the neighborhood/type of home when Chris and Shan’ann move in together.

Information courtesy

  1. 220 Shaw Ave, APT 4 Southern Pines, NC 28387-6320  (10/16/2002 – 10/16/2002)Fullscreen capture 20181010 111224Fullscreen capture 20181010 111509Fullscreen capture 20181010 111158
  2. 108 Shelly Ln Cameron, NC 28326-6544  (12/15/2002 – 3/4/2004)Fullscreen capture 20181010 112340Fullscreen capture 20181010 112355
  3. 562 E Jackson Blvd Erwin, NC 28339-9629 (4/16/2004 – 4/16/2004)Fullscreen capture 20181010 114135Fullscreen capture 20181010 114151
  4. 10720 Chelsea 20 Ln Dunn, NC 28334 (10/5/2006 – 10/5/2006)Fullscreen capture 20181010 114633Fullscreen capture 20181010 114704Fullscreen capture 20181010 114739
  5. 284 Mae Byrd Rd, APT I8 Lillington, NC 27546-6610 (11/16/2006 – 11/16/2006)Fullscreen capture 20181010 115045Fullscreen capture 20181010 115058Fullscreen capture 20181010 115111
  6. 107 Chelsea Ln Dunn, NC 28334-8438 (7/20/2005 – 12/8/2006)Fullscreen capture 20181010 115358Fullscreen capture 20181010 115425Fullscreen capture 20181010 115435
  7. Elect Ladies Ministry Methodist Church 2725 Raeford Rd Fayetteville, NC 28303-5435 (12/5/2005 – 6/3/2007)Fullscreen capture 20181010 120356Fullscreen capture 20181010 120655

  8. Po Box 755 Biscoe, NC 27209-0755 (8/17/2007 – 8/17/2007)
  9. 216 Tanglewood Dr Southern Pines, NC 28387-4325 (11/16/2007 – 11/16/2007)Fullscreen capture 20181010 120945Fullscreen capture 20181010 121027Fullscreen capture 20181010 121038
  10. 135 Forest Dr Aberdeen, NC 28315-4446 (1/14/2002 – 2/28/2008)Fullscreen capture 20181010 121218Fullscreen capture 20181010 121230
  11. Fullscreen capture 20181010 121533Fullscreen capture 20181010 121552
  12. 520 W Th St, # 711 Charlotte, NC 28202 (11/28/2008 – 11/28/2008)
  13. 727 Carolina Dr Dunn, NC 28334-2657 (5/10/2004 – 2/26/2009)Fullscreen capture 20181010 121858Fullscreen capture 20181010 121913
  14. 520 W Fish St, APT 813 Charlotte, NC 28202 (5/15/2009 – 5/15/2009)Fullscreen capture 20181010 122207Fullscreen capture 20181010 122224
  15. 2639 Wilkinson Blvd Belmont, NC 28012 (8/9/2011 – 8/9/2011)Fullscreen capture 20181010 122440Fullscreen capture 20181010 122224
  16. 1978 Skibo Rd Fayetteville, NC 28314-1514 (7/16/2007 – 1/23/2008)Fullscreen capture 20181010 122641Fullscreen capture 20181010 122702
  17. 520 W 5th St, APT 711 Charlotte, NC 28202-1864 (7/23/2008 – 3/3/2009)

  18. 1ST HOME>>>1000 Peninsula Dr Belmont, NC 28012-8677 (1/1/2011 – 5/11/2016) At this point Chris Watts was living with Shan’ann.Fullscreen capture 20181010 122912Fullscreen capture 20181010 122954
  19. COLORADO>3040 Trinity Loop Broomfield, CO 80023-4671 (3/28/2012 – 12/11/2012) At this point Chris Watts was living with Shan’ann.Fullscreen capture 20181010 123222Fullscreen capture 20181010 122954Fullscreen capture 20181129 071821
  20. 2825 Saratoga Trl Frederick, CO 80516-2600 (1/1/2012 – 5/13/2013)4F25718A00000578-0-image-a-7_1534469824187

Below are a list of previous homes of Chris Watts [besides Vass Road where he lived until January 2004, and the homes he shared with Shan’ann in Belmont, Broomfield and Frederick]:

1.900 W Wilson Ave, APT 807 Mooresville, NC 28117-5218 (1/8/2004 – 4/8/2004)Fullscreen capture 20181010 124120Fullscreen capture 20181010 124114Fullscreen capture 20181010 124133

2. Map 119 Lynch Cir Mooresville, NC 28117-6915 (3/9/2006 – 6/25/2007)Fullscreen capture 20181010 124345Fullscreen capture 20181010 124402Fullscreen capture 20181010 124416

3. 405 Park Ave, APT 108 Davidson, NC 28036-5507 (8/24/2007 – 12/23/2010)Fullscreen capture 20181010 124554Fullscreen capture 20181010 124416

2011 appears to be the year things started to change for both of them – in terms of the class of home they were living in. 2012 was the year they married, and the bankruptcy followed 3 years later.


  1. Pauline

    1000 Peninsula Drive Belmont, NC is some starter home. North Carolina would give you more bang for the buck versus Colorado. Selling Peninsula Drive would give them the cash they needed for a downpayment on Saratoga Trail. But it’s a couple living beyond their means.

    • Rachel Mulligan

      Blows my mind that house was shanann yet new house only in his name…

    • trina

      She sold at a loss, was in debt from the start

  2. piktor

    Was Shanann speaking the truth or was she actually telling it like it was not:

    • piktor

      I tried to link a video I posted on Nick’s twitter and did not work. Watch the video @ 5:01

      • piktor

        To understand how she and he “donated” $500,000 go to @ 4:15

        • Ralph Oscar

          That video is inaccurate – Shan’Ann is desribing how LeVel donated $500,000. She was part of the profits that enabled LeVel to make that fat donation, hence the “we”. It wasn’t her and Chris.

      • nickvdl

        In TWO FACE I mention the idea of living a lie coming up again and again in this story. It may be difficult to admit, and it may feel like victim-blaming etc, but when you live a lie you have to be telling lies constantly. You’ve caught Shan’ann out here on a big one. It’s sad to see.

      • Lisa

        You people aren’t very quick are you? By “we “ she was referring to LaVel that had donated $500,000 towards breast cancer not we as in her own family🙄 They did this campaign every year!

        • Ralph Oscar

          Exactly – Shan’Ann was taking credit for the LeVel contribution because she kicked in a few bucks or something. Or simply thought that, since she was part of LeVel, it reflected on her even if she hadn’t participated – she was part of keeping the company going, wasn’t she?

  3. Pauline

    Unless this has been posted somewhere else, Sha’nann was married to Leonard T. King, an attorney who was formerly with Arthur M. Blue Law Offices,P.A. in Carthage, NC. He is now an assistant public defender in Laurinburg, NC. Is it at all possible that she received a large settlement in a divorce from Leonard King that would allow her to purchase the Belmont, NC home? Then Chris Watts moves in to that home but then they sell, completely furnished, and leave for Frederick, CO. With the money from the sale of the Belmont home they are able to move into the Saratoga Trail home. Sha’nann also said on one of her videos that her parents lived with her for a time. Not that she lived with them, but they lived with her. In a house the size of the Belmont home she may have been in a position to have them live with her, or perhaps they were there to help her deal with her divorce from Leonard King.

    I’m just trying to figure out the finances of it all. Although Chris starts a new job with Anadarko Oil, and his salary is what I would call good, at $61,000, especially starter pay, I’m just thinking it was really the sale of the Belmont home to Byron Falls that provided them with a down to qualify for Saratoga Trails, not so much Chris’s salary as he had just started a new job. His job with Anadarko however would have helped him qualify for the loan to finance the house. She was not working, not really (Thrive is not a real job, sorry folks!), and some of their debts followed them, plus new ones with credit card expenditures.

    Chris may have seen that having a nice big house, and a good salary with a future, adding kids to the mix with unreasonable toys are us and furniture purchases from Macy’s, and God knows what was spent on patches and powders and seminars, his family was sopping up his pay. It’s usually about money.

    • nickvdl

      Pauline, you’re on a very important track here. You may be right about the settlement, that that’s how she got the house, either through the divorce or through the marriage. It doesn’t seem as if Shan’ann was ever much of a breadwinner, and by comparison to Chris Watts modest income, I don’t think she was either.
      Most of the debt they were carrying seemed to come from her too.

      • Pauline

        And you know when a dark cloud follows people around it’s because they can’t admit that they are the center of it. I think she was always someone who wouldn’t have it so good. Life was one big struggle. One that she was always trying to overcome. I’m sure she had wonderful qualities, her family loved her very much, but she put her many “malingering” qualities on others (see Nancy and Adam Lanza in “Slaughter”).

      • Kristie

        There was no divorce settlement from her first marriage. He left her. She stopped coming home at night.

        • Ralph Oscar

          “There was no divorce settlement from her first marriage. He left her. She stopped coming home at night.”

          Those concepts are not connected. There *was* a divorce. It is entirely reasonable to suspect there was a settlement for Shan’Ann, since she was the one making less money.

          Do you have a copy of the divorce decree? I’d sure like to see it.

      • Ladybug

        Are you kidding? Shanann was never much of a breadwinner? She was the one who worked her ass off to have her fist home built. CW was not even in the picture when this happened. The money she received from the sale of that house is what they probably lived on for awhile and put the down payment on the Saratoga house in Co. He is the one who wasn’t much of a breadwinner! She was a very hard worker and all these videos people read into of her trying to present a certain way of life means nothing as she was selling as in sales, this is what they do, don’t most brands do that when they’re trying to sell you something?

        • Debbie Krug

          Shanann talked a lot of shit. She hust seemed like a miserable person. She ID NOT deserve to be murdered, so don’t get your panties in a twist. She definitely seems like she had a mood disorder.

    • Lisa

      Nobody has any facts it seems! Chris did not work for Anadarko when they moved to Colorado. He worked as a Master mechanic for a Ford dealership & Shannan worked at the same dealership in sales. She then left that job to work at a Children’s hospital, before leaving after having the kids. Chris didn’t started withthe oil company In 2015 I believe. Shannan’s parents lived with them in Colorado!!!

    • Robin

      I think you’re on to something– for the record, Sha’ann had been ill off & on for years before she finally received a diagnosis of Lupus. She commented more than once on the difficulty of maintaining friendships, etc., because she had difficulty getting a correct diagnosis and realized she was a difficult person to maintain a friendship with (re making plans etc.) b/c it was difficult to predict how she’d feel. She realized that most didn’t understand and felt as if she was simply making excuses, so she withdrew.

      Chris hung in there with her, understanding whenever she’d cancel a date or when she’d suddenly begin to feel poorly during a date and ask to go home to rest.

      Her mother owned a business in N.C. that they closed to move in with Sha’ann just after the birth of CiCi to assist in caring for the family when it became apparent that her Lupus was out-of-control.

      This case is horrific, and absolutely senseless in that it didn’t have to be.

      She evidently realized changes needed to be made, and she began immediately by ordering a highly recommended book on how to heal relationships and improve communication. She ordered a hard copy which was delivered to their home for Chris (the police found the boxed book in the garbage) and she immediately began to listen to the audio version that last weekend when she was away on business. Her companions said that she didn’t venture out as they usually did as she buried herself in the audiobook.

      Reading much of the press, I’m reminded how absolutely cynical, ridiculous, self-righteous and shitty many people can be.

      • Ralph Oscar

        “she immediately began to listen to the audio version that last weekend when she was away on business”

        You mean on an expensive boondoggle to attend a mandatory rah-rah session for LeVel, which *she* had to pay for out-of-pocket, when all their credit cards were maxed and they had no money. Yeah, some “business”. And it appears that Shan’Ann’s whole focus, relationship-wise, was how *Chris* needed to change. Shan’Ann had no intention of changing a thing.

        It’s entirely possible that the mandatory rah-rah waste-of-money LeVel trip was required – either she attended or LeVel would drop her as a representative. Shan’Ann was so invested in the LeVel lifestyle (she told people they were going “to Cabo” the next year – that was a LeVel trip) that she’d do *anything* to remain in good with that company, even as it was sucking her/them dry. Really sad.

      • Debbie Krug

        Lol. Oh okay.

  4. piktor

    So, my question to any and all takers:
    How much magic powder units, at $5 per unit, do you have to buy to reach a “$500,000 donation”?

    If you save $74 and get 3 units, it means you have to pay $148 to get 2 plus one free.
    Does it mean the Watts had to buy 100,000 magic powder packets over 2 years, at $5 donation per packet?
    The couple spent on this magic powder item alone $148 X 100,000 over 2 two years?
    $7,400,000 spent on a single magic powder item per year ??

    Or, she misspoke and meant to say $500 or $5000, maybe?

    • Pauline

      Maybe she was donating 500,000 DFT’s, which she would get at a wholesale price. I don’t know though, but I think some things she was giving the greenlight to, Chris may have not been in on the decisions. I can just imagine their arguments “how much is this f—–g costing me?”

      • piktor

        Doesn’t matter what Shanann was donating because she doesn’t explain it in the video. She mentions a huge number twice and no details. It was a sales pitch, enticing people to buy stuff and contribute to a noble cause.

        Statements by the Wattses seem to come with asterisks attached & small print itemized explanation.

      • piktor

        Even if SW was donating 500,000 DFTs wholesale, for argument’s sake at half-price $37, the company would have to donate $5 on a $37 item.

        So, instead of getting $74 minus $5 = $69,

        Magic Powder Co. would get $32 on a $37 wholesale item.

        But the mystery continues:

        to reach a donation worth $500,000,

        Shanann & Chris pay $37 X 100,000

        $37 X 100,000 = $3,700,000

        Magic Powder Co. comes out winning, the Wattses not so much.

      • Kristie

        No, she means the company itself donated that much… Not her personally.

    • piktor

      piktor wrote: “The couple spent on this magic powder item alone $148 X 100,000 over 2 two years?”

      This is wrong. It should read ” … $74 X 100,000 over 2 years… ” = $3,700,000 per year.

      If Shanann misspoke and she meant ‘ $5,000 ‘ , it’s still hard to believe:

      To reach a $5,000 donation (in 2 years) you have to spend plenty on

      1,000 units ,

      1,000 units X $74 = $74,000

      $37,000 per year.

      To reach a $500 donation (in 2 years) you have to buy

      100 units

      100 units X $74 = $7,400

      $3,700 per year.
      What should we believe,

      – a possible $500 donation?,

      – a hard to believe $5,000 donation?,

      – Shanann’s impossible $500,000 ?

      All these wacky numbers on *One* *Single* *Item* she was promoting.

    • Ladybug

      I believe she is talking about LeVel donating 500K NOT her and Chris for cripe’s sake! It really doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this out. When she say’s “we” she’s talking about the company she represents, nothing more.

      • John

        It’s unclear what she means and that’s the issue. Le-Vel is a pyramid scheme plain and simple and I guarantee the Watts were spending more than they were making hocking this nonsense on Facebook.

      • AC

        ‘*We* donated’ makes it sound like she and her husband personally donated half a million dollars. That was purposeful. She wasn’t in any hurry to correct the confusion that might arise.

    • Lisa

      If you were listening correctly she was doing that video as marketing promotion for Thrive & saying We donated $500,000 for Breast Cancer research last year & hope to do it again this year is referring to LeVel the COMPANY that makes Thrive & has a breast cancer awareness month every year. I’m sure every normal person listening to her videos then understood this quite easily!!!! But since these vids are all chopped up & taken out of context or people just have no comprehension skills & want to make something out of nothing they’ve come up with story!

    • Ralph Oscar

      It was the LeVel *company* that made the “$500,000 donation”. They likely solicited donations from their salespeople, who then patted themselves and each other on the back for “their” donation. It’s an expression of how vested they all were in LeVel as an extension of themselves – very culty behavior, but an MLM goal: to get the salespeople identifying themselves by the brand, so they’ll work harder and won’t leave.

    • Debbie Krug

      Shanann was an odd dock. Her entire life was a lie.

  5. Cheryl

    Pictures, as well as purchase and sales info on 1000 Peninsula are still available on the net. Here’s the link:

    Or, if the link doesn’t work, google the address and go to the listing, where sales and purchase info is available, as well as 16 mostly interior pictures of the house.

    The Saratoga house looks like a recreation of the Peninsula house: size, interior decor (modern, color scheme, even down to the orange pots of flowers in the kitchen) Per the sales info, the Peninsula house was built in 2009 and sold for $334,500. It was then initially listed for sale in 3/2012 for $383,500. The price was dropped several times over the next several months until it sold for $349,900 in August 2012, so it took about 6 months to sell the house. The current value is estimated at $485,800.

    Pauline, you may be right about Shan’ann’s having a chunk of money to purchase this home, especially considering its purchase occurred right after the 2008 real estate crash, when lending standards were significantly tightened.

    • nickvdl

      Pretty sure this had everything to do with the housing bubble. Timing is perfect for a perfect storm.

    • Pauline

      Okay Cheryl, then given those facts she wouldn’t have had much for a down on the Frederick home. She wasn’t in it long enough to have it appreciate. Once you pay the realtor fees, etc., she’s left with probably nothing. She may have broken even, or been in the negative. So if she was able to add furniture into the mix she may have picked up a few grand. So I’m still scratching my head, how were they able to buy the Frederick home? And were they already having financial difficulties? If so, then bad credit. So they also may have been in a “rush to sell” because he was starting a new job so they would take anything for the house, with furniture thrown in.

      • Cheryl

        I looked up the deed on the Saratoga house, and there are two. The first deed dated May 1, 2013 was a transfer from the home builder to Chris Watts only. It was an FHA loan for $392,709. The second and final deed recorded for the home occurred one month later on June 4th, 2013 and was a transfer from Chris Watts to Chris Watts and Shan’ann Watts. I’m not sure how all loan structuring works, but I believe that FHA loans offer lower down payments (I think as little as 5%), but you have to have very good credit to qualify. What I’m thinking is that if Shan’ann’s credit was shaky and they didn’t have enough down for a more conventional loan–say 10% to 20%, perhaps they structured the initial purchase under Chris only and then added Shan’ann on the deed one month later. What’s interesting about this is I think you can be on the deed without having to be on the loan, which means Chris may have been solely responsible for the loan while Shan’ann enjoyed half ownership of the house without the financial responsibility.

        As their finances unraveled resulting in the 2015 bankruptcy coupled with what seems like continuing financial problems after that, the birth of two children, Shan’ann’s quitting her job to stay at home with the kids, unreliable income from Thrive, and then a third child on the way, I can only imagine the level of rancor this created in the Watts household, especially with Chris. It would also support Chris’s possibly having a sense of entitlement (literally and figuratively) to the home, thereby underscoring Chris’s wanting sole possession of 2825 Saratoga as a primary motivation for the murders. On the other hand, if Chris had no way to retain the home, his murdering Shan’ann could have been revenge for losing the home and compromising Chris’s credit–Chris had mentioned to a neighbor they were considering selling the home. Anyway, something to think about..

        • nickvdl

          Hey Cheryl. Great detective work. Can you send me a copy of the deed you found? What do you think of the possibility that Shan’ann’s name was on the deed first, and Chris’ was added later.

          • JW

            It wasn’t. She herself said it’s in Chris name, when texting friends.

        • Ralph Oscar

          Do you suppose the Saratoga house was financed with an adjustable rate mortgage (ARM)? Those are really evil – the payments start out artificially low, typically adding to the balance (negative amortization), and then, once that initial “honeymoon period” is over, the payments start ratcheting up as the rate increases. A lot of people have ended up losing their homes because of this.

          I’m still perplexed about how Shan’Ann was able to afford that “starter home” in NC. Could it have been attributable to a combination of these factors?
          – Settlement from the divorce (was there alimony?)
          – Embezzlement from Shan’Ann’s former employer? That was dropped fast – the employer apparently did not choose to pursue litigation.
          – Settlement from the car accident in which she injured her neck

        • scorchedearth066

          And putting the kids in a $500 a week daycare when she didn’t work in a real job and seemed to lose more money from Thrive than she made. The videos are cringeworthy, everything had to be filmed for Thrive even at Christmas. The Troublewithjustice blog by Lise Lasalle has the best timeline I’ve seen in this whole case, from starting in NC to aftermath

          • Debbie Krug

            There was something mentally wrong with Shanann.

            The kids were the only purely innocent people in all this.

      • Femella

        Chris put the deposit down. He had saved a good chunk over the years . I had this info from a close source .

        • JW

          I thought that was spent on the ring?

      • Sara

        Realtor fees 3% of the sale price. That hardly would leave her with nothing. Just saying.

    • Spock

      FYI – I believe those pictures in the link provided above by Cheryl were taken when Shanann had the house on the market. Several items, lamp, pillows, artwork, statues, rug, vases, etc., all match items in the house at 2825 Saratoga Trail.

      • nickvdl

        Great observation Spock.

      • Ralph Oscar

        But I thought she left the contents of the house *behind* when she sold that house.

    • Kathleen

      If she contributed to the down payment with house proceeds, why wasn’t her name on the house? She says in a text to a friend that the house is only in her husband’s name????

      • Ralph Oscar

        The amount of the mortgage was virtually the entire purchase price of the house – >$392K on a $400K house. Less than $8K – that’s nothing.

        • Bryin

          CW was 1st time home buyer FHA is 3.5% down… CW’s mom said Shanann got nothing for her house in NC.

  6. Pauline

    Nick I sent you property info on their house last night. I would still like to know what they put down on the house in Frederick. But from the report their property notice of valuation was on the rise there in Frederick, better known as property taxes. In 2014 they were $4,520. Then $5,299, $5,303 then 2018 $5,343. We have prop 13 here to protect homeowners from increases in property taxes based on land valuation increases but I don’t think Colorado has that. That’s steep. Their homeowner’s dues can rise too, and probably did. They were in arrears $1500. Now homeowner associations can take you to small claim’s court over it, and if they get a judgment one can always work it out with them in the form of reasonable payments – at least here in the golden state. But the time really for working it out is before small claims court. The HOA does not have much recourse, they can put a lien on your house, which if you sell the buyer pays the lien off but it does go on title and it’s an “alert” to a buyer, who may not want to satisfy your debt. Then if they were behind in their property taxes, that’s another load to pass off on a buyer. So I wonder if Chris thought ahead as to just how he was going to take care of all of these matters before he planned total annihilation of his family.

    • Cheryl

      Pauline, perhaps Chris had life insurance on the family that he intended to use to secure the house. I recall he had money withheld from his pay check for life insurance; however, this may have been documentation tied to the 2015 bankruptcy filing. I believe he started with Andarko in 2/2016. At any rate, something to consider.

      • Cheryl

        However, since he “disappeared” everyone, he’d have a considerable waiting period for any insurance money. Whatever the case, it seems Chris didn’t plan very well if sole possession of the home was a prime motivation for the murders.

    • Tiny Tech

      Pauline, you’re correct. I went to the Weld County Tax Collector’s website and searched. She may have been on the deed, but JP MORGAN CHASE wouldn’t allow her on the mortgage due to piss poor credit. The mortgage was solely in his name, and in DEC ’18 when CHASE posted info on the foreclosure, it looks like it was solely in his name. I took screen shots since this was from a .pdf file.

      Heres the screenshots below of one of the notices posted about the foreclosure

      Sorry about the formatting, I wasn’t sure if WP used markdown or html and I didn’t want to screw anything up.

      • Tiny Tech

        Also, I forgot to add but it looks like they/he owed just under $350k on the house. They must have been doing partial mortgage payments for a long time or they were very far behind on the loan because the house was purchased for like 380k.

        How is it possible that they only payed off less than 30k in 6 years of living there? That’s insane. To say they were living above their means is a gross understatement at this time. They should’ve been much further ahead on that mortgage note and how they managed to stave off foreclosure for as long as they did is kind of amazing.

        I wonder if either of them gave any thought to having that third child because it could’ve been a very real possibility that they would be homeless or living with relatives by the time the kid was born. It appears that both of them were financially irresponsible. Shanann needed to stop that Thrive bs and acquire a real job with real benefits and a consist paycheck. They were spending atleast 3600 a year for her pseudo business (and thats a conservative low end estimate) and they couldn’t afford it, they were hemorrhaging money.

    • Julie

      He didn’t kill his family , she did . The money for the house deposit came out of Chris Watts savings .

  7. Pauline

    Yes, I tend to agree with you Cheryl. So if we abandon the theory that the house meant everything to him (and he had no plan to hold onto it on his own) then we have to revisit the girlfriend being a motivating factor, or something else. Did he really thing he could resume life, solo, as if nothing had changed? Back to work as usual?

    • Cheryl

      Pauling, I did some digging. See my comment on the house above. Thanks.

  8. piktor

    “They said in the June 2015 bankruptcy filing that their nearly $3,000 mortgage and $600 in monthly car payments formed the bulk of their $4,900 in monthly expenses.”

    $3000 mortgage monthly payment on a $378,000 loan would mean it’s a 15-year loan at 5% interest.,000

    2015 Bankruptcy filing downloadable PDF:

    • Cheryl

      On the database I researched, it said their loan was $392,700, and there’s no indication they obtained another loan. Assuming it’s $392,000 at 5.25 percent 30-year fixed ,their principal and interest payments would be approx $2,200. Add to that private mortgage insurance at around $200 because they didn’t have 20 percent down, plus homeowners insurance and HOA fees at around $200, and finally property taxes at around 400/month or $5,000/year, it adds up to $3,000/month. I can’t imagine they would take out a 15-year loan given the higher principal plus interest monthly payments, let alone be able to qualify for it. But who knows…

      • piktor

        Many thanks for your valuable info.

        Nick states in his Kindle book 1, chapter “Living a Lie and Running out of Time”:

        “After living in Colorado for three years, the mortgage had reduced from $ 400 000 to $ 378 348.00. In three years they’d paid just over $ 21 000 of their mortgage, around $ 7000 a year, or $ 583 per month. At that rate, all things being equal, they were going to need 686 months [57 years] to pay off their home.”

        van der Leek, Nick. TWO FACE: THE MAN UNDERNEATH CHRISTOPHER WATTS (K9 Book 1) (Kindle Locations 1370-1372). A Shakedown Title. Kindle Edition.

        So I did a simple search to find how much time it takes to pay off a mortgage at $3,000/m in Colorado.

        My point is mortgages aren’t indefinite contracts. No one would apply for a loan.

      • Bryin Sills

        CW mom said they paid $2700.mnth…. prob includes taxes

  9. Cheryl

    Sorry, I meant Pauline!

    • Cheryl

      Thanks, Pictor, for the above clarification on the loan.

      • piktor

        Thank you.

  10. Pauline

    That is great digging Cheryl! So hmmm, yes it makes sense then, that escalating financial problems all swirling around a huge financial liability – which also was an asset initially – the home and the idea of losing it all may have resulted in him wanting to wipe the slate clean and seek revenge too. But it seems like something is missing doesn’t it? Because he took it out on the kids too. I really hope the trial is televised. I don’t want to hear about it from the media , I want to see it myself.

    • Cheryl

      Thanks, Pauline, I’ve been doing some research on family annihilators, whom are usually males, and they often murder the children because they view them as extensions of the mother. In other words, they project what they perceive as the sins of the mother onto the children. I think what’s important here is that if Chris was the only one on the loan but Shan’ann was on the deed (there are no indications they refinanced so that both would be on the loan), then Chris probably felt like quite the martyr given the unraveling finances and he, in the end, is providing most of the income.

      • Lisa

        Now that the 2000 page discovery has been released it is apparent that Shannan was in fact bringing home over $70k a year, and her car was paid for by the company. Chris stated as much & finacial records done my investigators prove this. Their biggest mistake was putting those girls in that prestigious daycare at a cost of $25,000 per year, That was insanity! Their other big debts were medical bills & copays from Shannans spine surgery, the two pregnancies of the girls which were done using fertility treatments, CeCe had some serious medical issues, and both girls had asthma, as well as Shannans Lupas. So although they had insurance their were some pretty significant medical bills outstanding regardless. I’m surprised most of you don’t realize that the first five years of a 25 year term on a mortgage is mainly interest paid. It’s pretty much 90% interest 10% principal & as the years go by the percentage starts to change then even out then tip the other way toward the end of a mortgage. When you purchase a $125,000 home over 25 years at a payment of say $700 P&I you end up paying over $300,000 for the house in the long run & that’s at a moderate 4% interest rate. So it’s not surprising that after 6 years they really hadn’t knocked much off the principle, I’d expect maybe $5000 a year at the outset max!

        • Ralph Oscar

          Really. $70K a year, eh? More than Chris was bringing home? Then WHY were they several months behind on their mortgage payments, all their credit cards maxed, and more than a year and a half in arrears for their HOA payments, to the point that the HOA was *suing them* over their nonpayment and could have forcibly foreclosed on their house over that?? WHERE was all the money going, if Shan’Ann was making that much money? Even her stupid, frivolous manicures and sitting around that big empty house on her fat ass doing nothing while her kids were in full time day care (some stay-at-home mom she was) couldn’t account for THAT much money going missing.

          So where was it? Where did it go, if Shan’Ann’s “business” were THAT successful and the car was being paid for *consistently* and all the rest? WHY was Shan’Ann panicking over Chris spending $65 on a dinner out if they were so flush with cash?

  11. Cheryl

    Thanks, Nick. I went to a site called to access the information. The information runs off of County Assessor data, but does not provide a copy of the deed. It’s a comprehensive database that provides information by person as well as by address. I tried to copy the info to post here, but it won’t allow me to do so. The section I went to is driven by Deed information. The header for 2825 Saratoga reads, “Two deed records were found on this property.” Underneath that header in this order is the following information:

    Ownership Change: June 4, 2013
    From: Christoper L. Watts to Christopher L. Watts and Shanann Watts
    (there is no loan information here, indicating the property was not refinanced; the June 4 activity indicates the addition of Shanann’s name to the deed only.)

    Ownership Change: May 1, 2013
    From KDB Homes, Inc. to Christopher L. Watts

    Lender: DHI Mortgage
    Loan Amount: $392,709
    Lender Type: Mortgage Company
    Loan Type: Federal Housing Authority (FHA)
    Line of Credit: 0 Credit Line

    As a test of the data quality, I input another address, where I know the individuals are both on the loan and on the deed. My knowledge of the property checked out. Having said this, maybe there was a mistake and Shanann’s name was added to the deed one month later. However, given what we know about the North Carolina house she owned and her selling it with all the furnishings, I would have to think she was in significant financial trouble (probably behind on mortgage payments) and couldn’t qualify for a loan, especially in 2013, when lending had really tightened due to the housing debacle. Assuming Chris’s credit was good, they probably had a better chance of obtaining a loan under his name only. Perhaps the idea was to jointly refinance the home later on, so that Shanann would be on both the deed and the loan. Since their finances went downhill after 2013, I imagine this was not a possibility. They certainly couldn’t take advantage of the rock-bottom interest rates that were available around the time they filed bankruptcy.

  12. Pauline

    Scott Peterson didn’t do any planning either. He only planned how and where and when and stopped. Doesn’t it seem again, like women are more organized than men? I would want an “after” plan. Scott was already failing as a fertilizer salesman, did he think he could try his hand at golf again? Chris couldn’t spend the night in his home after he got rid of everyone, he stayed a night at the neighbor’s. He still would have the same debt to income ratio he did before. Finally when the bodies are found Scott gets a plan – a bag full of money, camping gear, dye his hair, get another car, some viagra (that was essential) and head for Mexico. So even though these men pre-plan they have no contingency plan, they can’t see beyond the event, and they think with a limited skill set in criminal activities they can outsmart the police.

    • nickvdl

      How can you say Scott Peterson didn’t do any planning when you’ve read and reviewed Blood & Seawater? What do you think the secret purchase, stowage and use of the fishing boat was all about?

    • nickvdl

      If you remember, he did quite a lot of postmeditation. He made numerous calls on his way back from the marina [Chris Watts did the same on the morning after the murders]. Scott Peterson even kept his marina ticket stub. He actively participated in the admin side of the search for Laci, but like Chris Watts, had no idea the media and family and neighbors and law enforcement would respond as quickly and in such great numbers as they did. Being poor in post crime isn’t the same as no planning.
      Scott Peterson also had good reason to believe he could get away with it – when another woman who disappeared in San Francisco Bay was found, there wasn’t enough evidence implicating the married man she was involved with. It helped that his wife gave him an alibi.
      Chris Watts may have had Casey Anthony’s case on his mind during the anniversary period, or being so close to Boulder, maybe even the JonBenet Ramsey case.

  13. Pauline

    No didn’t say he didn’t do any pre planning of the murder. He didn’t plan for afterward. He sat in his car and didn’t hand out fliers, he continued to call Amber, he ran to Ann Bird’s house for a while, he finally fled and was captured.

  14. Pauline

    I give him 5 stars for making the secret boat purchase, stowing it in the warehouse, keeping it secret, searching the tide charts on his computer, selecting the night to do it, making a second trip there to establish alibi, buying a boat slip ticket, but I give him 2 stars for his behavior afterward. And I give Chris Watts 1/2 of one star for his behavior afterward. I give Casey Anthony 5 stars for her coverup. It was so unbelievable it became believable, that she was disturbed, her father had something to do with it, and she couldn’t be blamed for anything more than lying to the police and inventing a fictional nanny to cover for her embarrassment over a missing daughter and possibly being a neglectful mommy. And in the end the attorney who had represented the “Girls Gone Wild” entrepreneur outfoxed the seasoned sincere smart prosecutor.

    • nickvdl

      But it’s a complete fallacy to say there was no planning. And no matter how many stars you give him, he came very, very close to getting away with murder. If it wasn’t for the Amber Frey recordings, which were a lucky jackpot for the prosecution, Scott Peterson would very likely have been acquitted.

      • Cheryl

        Along the lines of planning, as per the Saratoga home, the house is now valued st over $500k and there was an outstanding loan of around 378k, so there was potentially over 100k worth of equity in the home minus realtor costs, outstanding HOA fees, leaving potentially around 80k to 100k for the seller. A motivation for the murders may have been not wanting to share the proceeds with Shannan who was on the deed but, it appears, not on the loan.

        • nickvdl

          Also a great point. We know it was Scott Peterson’s plan to sell the house – that house was mostly not his as well. Selling the house was essentially his solution to his financial malaise, contingent on getting away with murder of course. He sold Laci’s car almost immediately.

      • Pauline

        points well taken. I just often wonder what do they think they are going to DO after murder? Where are they going to go – do they think they can return to work business as usual?

      • Pauline

        I think he knew (Scott) he couldn’t wait around for her full inheritance from her grandmother, because he wouldn’t get to spend it – it would all go to expanding their family. So he sold as many pieces of the jewelry as he could in advance.

        Also per your points Cheryl Chris could say he just can’t live in the house anymore with his whole family “missing”, it’s just too lonely, so after waiting an appropriate amount of time he would have sold it.

    • John

      It’s quite possible our inclination is to find it harder to believe a woman would kill her child and therefore are more able to give the benefit of the doubt, or find it easier to believe excuses and lies, etc. I think as a society we find it much easier to blame men when it comes to acts of violence. There are obvious reasons for this but there have to be other more subconscious reasons as well. Stereotypes etc.

  15. nickvdl

    That’s exactly what they want to return to – business as usual. You’re looking for a big act when what they’re trying to do is hide behind a veneer of “everything is normal isn’t it?”

  16. Pauline

    Yes, I get that. More so now, thanks. Scott acted so smug, didn’t he? More concerned with his truck than Laci. And Chris during his porch sermon. Acting friendly, cooperative, glad the dogs were there, right.

  17. nan

    Could she have meant “LeVel” donated vs she & Chris? No way they’d have that kind of money to donate. Couldn’t even pay their HOA bill.

    • nickvdl

      Yes, Le-Vel did donate money. Not sure whether she means they donated or that they – through Le-Vel – donated. What do you think she’s implying, if you listen to it again?

      • Lea Anne

        She is clearly saying LeVel donated the money, she is explaining how so much of the profit from selling the item that she holds up to the camera goes to the charity. I don’t know how anyone could think she is saying anything different.

    • nicsal1101

      This was the impression I got from the video. “LeVel”=”we”

  18. richard didd

    I wonder why Shanann moved around so much. Is it considered normal to move around that often ?
    I guess the only person to know was Shanann.

    • Ralph Oscar

      The amount of moving around really surprised me – in my experience, most places require a year lease. That might have changed (I haven’t rented in decades) or not be the case where she lived (though even when we lived in NC we had year leases). If she’s running out on leases, that would tank her credit for home purchase purposes.

      • nickvdl

        I’ve noticed “moving around” comes up quite often in the context of true crime. It’s a factor in the Amanda Knox case, Oscar Pistorius, Van Breda, Watts, OJ Simpson, the Ramseys and arguably Steven Avery too. I think not having a solid and settled home life is by default unsettling and increases psychological tension and insecurity. Everyone wants and needs a home.

  19. richard didd

    I wonder if there are any divorce documents out there from Shanann’s first marriage.
    I can’t seem to find any but I am not sure if it’s something only findadable if I was in the USA (Im in the UK).
    Something sounds odd in that Shanann’s first house was only in her name and there are accusations of money laundering from Dirty South Auto’s (but again no proof).
    So how did Shanann afford the first house when working in retail / nursing care ?
    Someone needs to dig back into Shanann’s past in order to understand what happened in the future (I don’t mean to discredit Shanann but to get a better understanding).

    • Ralph Oscar

      Along the same lines, can anyone remind me where on the timeline Shan’Ann’s car accident was? Is there any chance she could have gotten a settlement from that that would have formed a nice down payment for a house purchase? I know we’ve discussed this – I just can’t remember off hand and this site’s difficult to search. Thanks in advance.

      • JC

        Pre-2010, when she met Chris. Assuming she got her license is 2001 when she was 16, that would be the broader timeline. However, I got the impression from a couple of interviews with family members that she was a young adult when the accident occurred. If there was some sort of settlement, and it happened before she bought the house, the timeline would likely be somewhere between 2003-2008. With comprehensive insurance there would be some payout offered to her by her insurance company for injuries, perhaps 5-10 thousand (based on the extent of the gash to her forehead and it being possible head trauma). If she did contact an accident/injury attorney, it could be significantly more. Problem is, you’d have to know the county/state where the accident happened. Also, it sounds like some of North Carolina’s county websites are a little archaic, so the records are difficult, if not impossible, to track down. That’s a long answer for “I don’t know” but it was my train of thought in narrowing the timeline down, anyway.

        • Ralph Oscar

          Thanks, JC. That’s more than adequate.

  20. richard

    Did Shanann mention ‘why’ they moved to Colorado ?
    was it for health reasons ?
    The house at 3040 Trinity Loop Broomfield, was this rented through friends ? were they Thrive sellers too ?

  21. Martine Crotty

    Why does all this matter??? This woman was murdered with her children in the most horrific way. Chris watts murdered his wife and children!! Le-vel, her work, his work MONEY. I think everyone here, guess what? I don’t know what to think of the discussion on this page.

  22. Jess

    He murdered his beautiful wife and precious babies, why are any of you making excuses? ??

  23. Emma Lynn

    Confused where Chris actually lived?! He went to NASCAR institute in Mooresville. It appears it is a 15 week program. All the addresses associated with him have the same move in and move out date? Sometimes that is a credit check for lease. If so did he not have credit to live there? I know the Canz woman is from Mooresville. She came public they dated. I listened to an interview about their first date. They went back to her place. Did he have a place of his own? Did he live with extended family or friends? I am interested in his back story. I hope you know details Nick. The only other relationship he mentioned himself in last confession. The woman going through divorce. Were there signs he was a sociopath? He doesn’t speak of these years either. It seems really odd.

  24. wilfred copson

    debt = stress
    Much debt = much stress. If you are nuts to start with, pretending to be something you are not, (both did this) then it is all smoke and mirrors. Strive is the answer, look at my life style, trips, fancy rental car, fancy house you cannot afford, designer clothes, racks of shoes, purses….on and on.
    Join me, become a distributor, be me. Compliant husband, always good natured, excellent with kids, fit and easily handled.
    All he has to do is sleep walk through life, it is all taken care of, by Wifey. She is on the road to riches, if you can figure out the downloads, and uploads and the sales and the commissions and the expenses and the Profits and losses and break evens. Go to rallies, where everyone is laughing, hooting a true believer, recognition, YOU ARE A SOMEBODY. Nobody in this world apparently knew how to add and subtract. Free trip, free room (shared) you pay the rest….no profit there, just a loss. But, everybody cannot be wrong, no negitive talk now, just winner talk.
    No kids allowed, so where is family values, no eating restrictions, just chow down, where is gluten, cross contamination concerns, no bankrucies here, just money, money, money.

    Where is the mental case Chris, coward in a corner with a painted half wit grin, unaware. After all what does he know? Daycare at $2500.00 a month, nary a question as to….is this expense necessary, stay at home MOM. Do the charge cards have to be maxed out, if he even knows. Can you put that phone down and let us have privacy. Second bankrupcy put him over the top or through the bottom. Pent up rage, even he is not aware of…crazy mother, simple minded dad, crazy wife….can’t even park the truck in the driveway, hang a picture, complain, let off steam…..just pretend. Meet NK, fall hard, realize he is trapped. Do what only a mental case would do, destroy everybody. Kids are collartoral damage, after his rage is spent killing her. Stupid senseless crime, to gain what, NOTHING. NK fell for his line of b.s. until she realized and paniced. She knew his life was fake after only a month or so. Her solution was to separate and he to get an appartment that would be suitable for the girls and she would stay right where she is, until the dust setttled. She realized to late that Chris was nuts.

  25. Lea Anne

    She is not saying that she and Chris donated 500,000 to Breast Cancer Awareness, she is saying that THRIVE donated the money. She is clearly explaining how a certain amount of profits go to that charity. And as for her house, she had that big house in North Carolina when she met Chris, his mother talks about seeing Shanann’s house the first barbeque they were invited to.

  26. spiaga

    Wilfred, you make sense of course but a sane guy would have just waked out or put his big boy pants on and make his marriage work without murdering his wife and adorable children. Shanann bought into that Thrive lifestyle sacrificing privacy, peacefulness and eventually less and less time with her daughters. Maybe that kind of career is better suited to single people or people who don’t have kids. I’m sure she thought it would pay off in the long run. God bless her and her babies.

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